untjim1995

I was real big on Chris Thomsen, who used to be the HC at ACU and was the OC at Arizona State, because he had sent kids from ACU to the NFL. If you can do that at ACU or WTAM, you can do it anywhere else in the state with better facilities and conference affiliation. Still think Littrell has a fine pedigree, and Thomsen or anyone else we would have hired would still have the massive RV-as-the-AD problem, but at least Thomsen has experience as a college head coach before and won. Hopefully, Littrell can become a winner, too, even if the AD is a moron of the highest order. But for that to happen, Littrell has to bring in talent that will stay here and find players that can be developed into talent. If he does that, the NFL draft will eventually see some UNT players be included in the years ahead.

Basically, the Big XII has three pieces that have major value to other power conferences: UT (everything), OU (sports), and KU (basketball, AAU membership). After that, WVU carries some value in sports, but carries poor academics. OSU, Tech, and KSU are similar, but share the states with big brother. ISU has AAU membership, but that's about it. And the two private schools, TCU and Baylor, don't carry much value to other power conferences at all. I still believe that the Pac, B1G, and the ACC are the conferences that will absorb a lot of the Big XII when its all said and done. The SEC will go east to get ACC schools in states they don't have a presence, such as Va Tech and NC State, meaning WVU and UConn will probably end up in the ACC. The Pac will probably get the Texoma Four together. the B1G will add KU and another ACC school that is also an AAU member (Ga Tech, UVa, or UNC). The 4 leftovers, KSU,ISU, TCU, and Baylor, will fill into the MWC and AAC.

My guess is that the difference in mileage between travel to Provo, Utah and Boise State is substantially less than eyeballs of millions of Mormons that BYU brings against the massive media market known as Boise, Idaho...

Sometimes I think some posters here think that our 2013 season was the norm for us, not even realizing that its the only winning season we have had since 2005...

Apparently not...

I pretty much agree, Deep, but the possibility does exist that we could do it. Can you imagine the embarrassment that we will feel if UTEP, Rice, and UTSA go to the MWC, allowing them to stay in the FBS level, while we get dropped back to a lower level? Of course, we are in the 2% that care, so it really would only embarrass us... If WSU brings football back (big stretch) and their basketball program stays at the level they have been in the last 5 years, they will get invited upward, but I believe it would be CUSA or the MAC at best for them for football, which really doesn't help them as much, since the MVC is a better basketball league. Now, if the MWC says to them that they will gain admittance as is, with the reality that they will be full conference mates once their football program gets up and running, ala South Florida in the old CUSA, that investment would probably be worth it, if only because it would let them be in a FBS league with staying power way above the MAC, CUSA, and SBC.

Sounds like the Big XII is finally realizing that having a couple of other teams would really help their chances at getting a playoff berth for other teams in their league not named OU or UT. The regular names are coming up: BYU, Cincy, Memphis, UCF, USF, UConn, Boise State, Colorado State, and UH. I don't see UH getting in, so I'll take them off the list, but they would be really smart to take BYU and Cincy, IMO. Boise is too far west, especially with WVU in the conference. UConn is too far to the NE. Colorado State isn't that big and the Florida schools look a lot like UH, good schools, good programs, not enough value for a power conference. Obviously, BYU gives you a national name and high value in revenue sports. The Big XII could easily get around the whole bit of avoiding Sunday games for them. If the AAC loses Cincy, it will be interesting to see who they get to replace them. This may be where the MAC gets hit, as I could easily see NIU being the replacement. That would save CUSA from losing anybody, which would be good for UNT. I doubt that the MAC would replace them with anyone else, since they would still be at 12 teams. I also saw on cbssports.com that Wichita State wants the MWC to consider them as a member, since Hawaii only plays football in the MWC, but everything else is in the Big West. But because they don't have football, the MWC commissioner doesn't seem too interested. The article mentions UTEP as a possibility to the MWC because of familiarity with the schools in the MWC as former conference mates. I still contend they will go that way only if the MWC adds other Texas schools. If the MWC ever splits with Hawaii, I could very easily see them adding in three schools to get to 14, which would be UTEP, Rice, and either us or UTSA. If we could build up our program ahead of UTSA significantly, we could overcome their location advantage fairly easily. As I've posted before, I truly believe that the MWC and AAC are going to be leagues that the power conferences will allow to stay aligned with them in the future, not as equals, but like they currently are, as leagues that will be allowed to play them in OOC games and give them a chance at earning a BCS Bowl berth. I figure we have about 5 years to get things built up and to garner attention of the MWC for this possibility, since SMU in the AAC stops our chances to ever go there. But so does UTSA, too...

That's true. I don't think anyone knows how UAB's return will affect the CUSA schedule.

I really hope that people understand just how down we are and that Littrell will need several years for us to get an idea if he even knows how to be a decent head coach. His first job, fixing the locker room, appears to be going well. Remember, he took over a roster that has already shown it will gladly quit on the university that gave them a scholarship. Running off people who either lack character or talent had to be Step One and it appears he has done a good job, so far. The second step involves looking at what you have left and identifying what parts are usable. When these are your first two steps as a new head coach--and its your first time to ever be a head coach--that doesn't ever add up to a big turnaround. Winning two games in 2016 would represent SIGNIFICANT progress from last year, when we suffered the worst loss in modern college football history and really should have gone winless (thank God UTSA had to play their 5th string QB in the 2nd half of our game here in Denton so that we could win by a TD). Our schedule this year is just a killer for where we currently sit. But next year, when we lose the three CUSA East powers and gain three CUSA East dregs for the schedule, this will help. Its a big reason that I think we will see us win 1-2 games this year, 3-4 games in year 2, and then 7 or more by 2018, when we still play those three CUSA East dregs. The biggest step Littrell has to make going forward this year is just winning some recruiting battles. It really wont surprise me at all to see him go heavy on JUCOs in this next class, just to try and infuse some talent into the roster until he and his staff can build up some cred with the TX HS coaches and parents of recruits.

Well, the family legacies at UT and A&M (especially A&M) and their high end academics certainly attract a lot of students who want that "experience" of being a college student. To me, A&M and UNT are polar opposites. One school is cult-like in its traditions and following rules and order. Our school is more the opposite, mostly because our students are often working thru college or this is their first college experience within their family. Obviously, with the music and fine arts windows, you will get some folks who are often more inclined to go somewhere that is counter to popular norms, although Denton today is far more homogenous than its ever been in the previous decades. To me, the kids who are more rah-rah, be-true-to-your-school types are often seen at A&M and Tech, while UT is just so big and diverse that you see all kinds. UNT, UH, UTEP, UTSA, and Texas State have lots of commuters and first-generation students, so a lot of them just look at the college as the place to get a degree, not to have a true college experience. Sure, music students and art students in Denton are probably enjoying the experience that kids who like sports and school spirit in College Station or Lubbock, but we know that the large majority of UNT alumni leave Denton behind for good when they leave, never to come back for much or never giving $$$ back in any major way.

That's exactly what I mean, Deep... Rarely have I seen a deeper conundrum than our football program, stuck in between a large majority that loathe it or don't care, but we keep it because a loud minority will pay for it.

Those large Power Schools have thousands of alumni and t-shirt fans who pay for monthly subscriptions to hear about the "inside" of the program they are following. For just $10 a month, you can subscribe to Orangebloods.com or TexAgs.com, both of who rate classes of kids from within the state. In Orangebloods' case, their lead guy, Geoff Ketchum, is the Rivals guy for this state. Now, put this together...I pay $10 a month to hear about everything at UT, the guy who runs the site also runs a state 100 list, and they want to see UT look as good as possible. Voila, Tyrone Swoopes is a 5-star QB out of a 2A school that goes winless because he chose UT. Voila, Texas has class ranked in the top 15 every year. And, voila, because those ratings are obviously biased, what looks a team full of highly rated talent is actually overrated and that's how losing has crept into the program--overrated prima donnas that think a UT scholarship is their ticket to the NFL, except its proving to be the exact opposite on the field and scoreboard. Same thing happened to A&M after the Johnny Football craze and getting into the SEC. Overrating kids because they are going to the SEC doesn't change the fact that A&M's system isn't built to ever beat all of the SEC West powerhouses they play each year. What it boils down to is the money that these fanbases will throw out to people just to get some "great" news actually skews the ratings, causing higher expectations from these classes than there really should be. This is, of course, only a problem for power schools with large fanbases. Nothing compares at all for the G5s, who barely get any interest from media in the college football world to begin with. And those media members admit that they spend 85% of their time covering the power schools. And its why I will be so glad when the day comes that our G5 schools will no longer have to play the NFL-lite schools. Its a bought fight, from before the game is scheduled.

So true. Look, the university has achieved its nirvana: educate thousands upon thousands of students, keeping job security in place, while allowing its music and fine arts department to be the primary window to the university. I promise you that to the UNT administration, for every time they hear about an SEC or Big XII school laughing at them because of sports, they laugh back at them because of music and arts. As my Aggie buddy used to say fondly, "If we ever have to play you guys in a marching band or drumline contest, yall are gonna pound us...", which was his way of trying to make the whippings we always take at the hands of the Southern Power Teams more tolerable. We just do it differently here. You've got UTA who keeps everything but football, but engineering is their main window, you've got UTD who doesn't exist at Division1 so they use academics and technology as their windows, and you've got UTSA, UTEP, and Texas State who play Division 1 in everything and want football or basketball to be the main windows to their school. And then you have us--music and fine arts, as primary window, with cheaper costs in a college town, playing Division1, but not really caring at all if we suck or not, just offering it up ISD style. And then you have SFA and SHSU, two schools that play Division 1 in everything but are FCS instead, yet still use revenue sports as a primary window to their schools. Obviously, there's no reason to even list UT, A&M, Tech, or UH on this list. This reality is a hard one--as in its hard to accept but also hard and fast in stone here. But once you accept it, you either keep going to games to enjoy interactions with your buddies and watching live sports, you find other ways to support the alma mater thru its plethora of colleges and programs, or you walk away. The administration and BOR doesn't really care which way you decide to go, since they know that thousands upon thousands are about to take your place in the student body enrollment and alumni records.

I just don't see how you can change the culture of a place that has either loathed football or just ignored it for decades at the administrative level and within the faculty and the student body. Obviously, winning might do the trick, but its not as if the few times we have had a winning season, that it has turned into anything of major note at the stadiums in Denton. Since 1991, we have had 5 winning seasons (1994, 2002-2004, and 2013). Even in those seasons, we didn't even average 2/3rds of the capacity of stadium. Maybe its being in a pro market or being surrounded by P5 giants, but nothing about the SLC, Big West, SBC, or CUSA has really moved the needle in the generic fans' eyes.

Well, if you really feel this way and aren't a troll, as I suspect, the easy answer here is to not to list on any resume that you went to UNT and got a degree, nor mention you went here. I'm sure that will help to make your life "less embarrassing"...Of course, if you thought Carlos Harris' last home game antics was not embarrassing, I'm gonna guess that your definition of embarrassment is very different from mine. My best guess is that you are trolling and that you are a millennial...

Littrell will help the talent here by recruiting players with the reality that playing time is abundant if you can make plays...He legitimately can say that the roster he took over suffered the worst loss in modern college football history and that he has run off several guys who either couldn't play or won't ever get their acts together. The only problem that Littrell faces is whether recruits will consider coming here with multiple FBS offers out of high school or if we are going to continue seeing these kids only come here if we are the only FBS team recruiting them or if other plans fall by the wayside and they sign here because its their last resort.

Realistically, Butt Cookman is our best chance at a win, Get that, and then steal another game or two and you have a season that is twice as good or higher than last year's debacle. My guess is that @UTSA and @ Army are the best chances. SMU,@UTEP, and @Rice aren't impossible, but they aren't probable, either. @MUTS, @WKU, Marshall, La Tech, and USM are almost certain losses. And @Florida is just to keep paying the bills. 2-10, with wins over Butt Cookman and an upset @ UTSA, is my prediction. But its very possible to go 1-11 or even 0-12, too. Last year, Kansas saw David Beaty take over there, as an offensive-minded coach from A&M, but with no experience as a head coach ever before. They lost at home to FCS South Dakota State in their opener, then followed that up with 11 more straight losses. For KU, they hope they've now bottomed out, as their whole view of last season became about wins off the field with recruits and within the locker room. That's what 2016 will be about here, IMO.

Anybody else see that UTSA had a player drafted this year, David Morgan?

Idaho and NMSU provide excellent examples of why its so incredibly stupid to not have conferences at the G5 level and below being more regionalized. Nobody at UNT will ever care one iota about Old Dominion or Charlotte. Nobody at Georgia Southern will ever care about playing Texas State. But I bet Georgia Southern fans might have an interest in Charlotte's program, because of the closeness of the schools in the SE. I know that people in DFW could be enticed to go watch UNT play Texas State, but they have proven over and over that hosting Western Kentucky will never move the needle here for additional fans to come to the game. I still believe that the many of the schools in the MAC, SBC, and CUSA are headed for the new I-aa within the next decade, to be paired with bigger programs in the Big Sky, Southland, and other larger FCS conferences. The MWC and AAC will look at adding value from these leagues, allowing for schools like UTEP and Rice to go west to the MWC, as well as Northern Illinois and Ohio to go to the AAC. When that occurs, going back to a SWC-type model will be the only way that these leagues will be able to turn a profit, just by keeping travel costs down and allowing fans to make trips to closer games. Conferences that look like this are a very real possibility in the future: NMSU, UNT, UTSA, Texas State, Sam Houston, SFA, Arkansas State, ULL, ULM, and McNeese State La Tech, USM, USA, Troy, FIU, FAU, Georgia State, Georgia Southern, MUTS, and WKU Appy State, ODU, Marshall, Charlotte, and teams from the SoCon, like The Citadel, Chattanooga, Samford, VMI, Furman, and Western Carolina. The MAC, without NIU or Ohio, which would be at 10, as well. The Big Sky

So, here's THE problem for anyone who likes Mean Green Sports. The answers to your questions above about being ashamed of our ineptitude in athletics and doing something about it are not EVER going to get answered the way you want them to be answered. Instead, you'd get a collective "Meh" from the students and alumni on the first point and even worse, when asked about what to do, a gigantic majority would clearly answer to get rid of the program altogether, just to make their costs go down and to be used towards their majors, like UTD does. Your last sentence is the truth. It does sicken a lot of us on gmg.com. It probably sickens some of the 2% of the alumni and students who have ever cared about our program. But the 98% don't care or openly loathe the existence of the program. So your administration and BOR run the school and the AD like the majority want it to be run, never daring to step out of the box at all in regards to athletics. They know that the revolt amongst the students body, faculty, and local citizenry would probably cost them their jobs. And, now, they have done something brilliant to keep their ass off the line in regards to athletic funding and expectations by doing what the university's leadership has always done best--they sold off the program to a few alumni, allowing them to be in charge, while not having to allocate further resources to the AD. And RV, following the lead of the BOR, just insulated himself within the belly of the UNT 17, a place that RV cannot be forced out by a President who cared about athletics, just to not disturb the apple cart of those 17 donors. RV is the main symptom of the Apathy Virus. And the only thing that could change this is to win bigger than we ever have in almost 40 years in football. But nobody wins big at any place that doesn't want to win big at the administrative level. And we don't. This website, in all of its greatness, will remain for a lot of us as our only connection to UNT Athletics going forward--because of the entertainment, but also because spending one more second or more penny on a UNT Sporting event under this prevailing mode of thinking will always be a colossal waste of time and money. So you get a brand new stadium that cannot get even half full for a season, on average, or a basketball arena that probably isn't even 20% full on most nights. And the leadership has made it abundantly clear how that affects their direction of the program--not even one iota of change. I'm starting to believe that the only value our degrees can get from North Texas is for the university to stop embarrassing it by allowing a sports program to be offered like an ISD would do. Because, in business, its not even worth it to talk about UNT sports to anyone. Instead, the UNT alum just talks about the P5 college team they have adopted or the pro sports team the love. Its been that way for decades, and I suppose it would take something colossal to change that--like going undefeated, including a win or two over P5 teams that garner media and alumni attention. And that's where the great George Strait's song about "Ocean Front Property in Arizona" comes to mind...you might as well just throw a BCS Bowl berth in for free.

Yes, this is why CUSA is still the best conference affiliation we have had since the MVC days. Payout is much better, regional travel is much better, and our media coverage/fan interest is still better than anything the Sun Belt Conference will ever offer. No matter what, SMU leaving CUSA for their Big East (now defunct) dreams opened up a slot that I am forever grateful to have seen us take. Playing a division with USM, La Tech, Rice, UTSA, and UTEP will always trump what we had anytime in the SBC by miles...

La Tech gets away with a smaller budget because of two things that they have in their corner. One, they are in a very talent-filled state. Two, if you stay in Louisiana, because of Tech's history of being a winner and making football its primary window to the school, kids don't look down on an offer from them. That history trumps ULL and ULM by miles. Basically, they remind me of UCF or USF in Florida. Clearly both are behind FSU, UF, and Miami on the pecking order of recruits in that state, but they are both ahead of the F_Us, so they get some serious talent that has proven to be able to be shaped into a big relevant winner on a national scene. It also helps to rarely compete with the former SWC schools in your home that still looks at them as various levels of royalty, for sure. But when you don't let football or athletics be your primary window to your university, you cannot be too surprised when a school with a smaller budget and enrollment runs circles around you in that sport. We may have more students to make our budget look better, but those only a small percentage of those kids even want to watch us play football, much less follow us after they leave here. Its not that way with La Tech students and grads--not at all.

That's a new UNT slogan and a few billboards away from being the next promotion of our fine university's leadership... UNT Football....Accepting Less for Thousands Less!!

This is exhibit #1 as to why I love this website...I love me some irony.

I'm not arguing about finding talent to put into positions on the field, but I am arguing that it will provide more wins than losses on the scoreboard this year or next. Look, if we were playing Old Dominion, Charlotte, and an F_U this year, plus we had UTSA, UTEP, and Rice at home, and Army at home, I could see us winning more than 3 games. But not with the schedule we have and not with the dearth of size and speed on defense, much less a brand new offensive scheme to implement with players built for something 180 degrees different. Winning 2 games would be a major improvement over last year's team that should have been winless. Marshall, MUTS, and WKU are light years better than we are right now, just as La Tech and USM are. The Texas opponents we play in CUSA are all on the road, where its tough to win anyway. USM is our hope here--and not for a win against them, but to emulate their rebuilding. SMU is trying to emulate them, as well, and they just finished a 2 win season, that included punking us down there. They are a year ahead of us in the process, and way ahead in recruiting talent to their school. USM went 1-11 in Monken's first year, won 3 games the next, then won the CUSA West in the third year of his tenure--and they had WAAAAYYYYY more talent on their squad in Monken's first year than Littrell has right now. McCarney left him with a decent class from 2015, but with the absolute worst ranked class in FBS in 2014, as well as a really poor one from 2013--and we have seen that lack of development on the roster led to where we are today. We just have to hope we bottomed out last year.