untjim1995

For the millionth time, at UNT, its all about known costs...this proves that it isn't just for athletics, either. Opportunity costs missed on this are in the tens of millions or more by now. But we don't ever look at opportunity costs--only known costs.

I wonder what penalties the NCAA would drop on Mississippi if they had the same violations as Southern Mississippi...never mind, I don't have to wonder...

What the university has wanted him to mean to athletics...

This is good news...

If only someone had been saying this same thing for the last year? Oh wait, that's been pretty obvious to anyone who is not blinded by their Mean Green glasses. The UNT 17 have been sold a bill of goods by RV, but he has also given them complete control of his moves, so he is completely insulated within their contributions. The BOR and administration aren't rocking that boat--they barely care about athletics to begin with. Now, to their joy, their are 17 people who care enough, somehow, to have basically bought the program. BTW, how cool is it for these people to talk to their Longhorn and Aggie buddies to tell them how awesome it is that they get "access" and "control" for tens of thousands less than they could ever do in Austin or College Station? That's your real delusion here. The term "UNT 17 Mean Green"...it might as well become the headline in the DRC each week.

Absolutely. I applaud the Memphis series. I think it makes sense. It is improvement. The length of the SMU and Army series really strap you from other series when you choose the bodybag/FCS games. I do wonder if the powers that be at UNT know that SMU will be buying out this series very soon, meaning we need to get some stuff scheduled now. The problem with apathy is that small amounts of winning doesn't move the needle at all with fans that you are trying to get. And winning consistently is something you have to be committed to at the top, both in funding and in results (i.e. firing people when they have proven they can't get the job done). I have said this many times, but RV is a symptom, not the problem. He represents the interests of the BOR and the UNT 17. Firing RV would be a great start, but the BOR has sold the athletic department to these donors and aren't gonna rock that boat for fear of losing that cash. Until the BOR and administration change course, the rest of this is completely moot, including RV as the AD. But this people like their jobs--trying to promote winning in revenue sports as a top priority to the UNT Family is a fine way to see that job security vanish quickly with the way that the overwhelming number of alumni, students, faculty, and Denton citizenry feel about our teams. Just check at UNT's facebook page when anything regarding football comes up--there might be a lone voice in the wilderness sticking up for it, while he is basically surrounded by a pack of hungry wolves that are angry as hell about us even having a team. It is what it is.

Went back into the archives on this one...so much gold in this thread. Just in case anyone wonders, our body bag game is still scheduled well into the 2020s, IIRC... At UNT, the more things stay the same, the less they change... UNT'd

See, to me, it was actually the opposite. Once we fell behind by that much, especially in OOC games, give-up mounted fast. Before that point, both of those guys just believed that their gameplans of run, run, run, punt was effective enough to stay in games tot he point that the occasional downfield pass would help win them the game. And we have proof that when we had a hard-hitting defense and a great special teams, those gameplans could win, since that was the recipe in 2002-2004 and 2013. Unfortunately, at no other point did we have that combo under those tow or under Dodge's spread offense, so we have enjoyed major suckitude since 1998.

No problem here at all with your logic...but it might be a good idea for the AD to not schedule a two-for-none with a P5 school that was specifically mentioned by folks who advocated for building a new stadium as someone we could now try and play against in Denton. Because Iowa was specifically mentioned as someone that Apogee would allow us to try and schedule that Fouts wouldn't. Now, 5 years later, with a jewel of a stadium, we have hosted one P5 school that battles for the worst of that level in Indiana, two AAC schools in UH and SMU, Ball State, Idaho, and 3 FCS schools in Texas Southern, Nicholls State, and Portland State. This year, we can add FCS Butt Cookman to the list, then in the years to come, we can add Army, Lamar, Incarnate Word, Abilene Christian, and hopefully Memphis to the list. Just to compare, at Fouts in the last five years of its existence as the toilet bowl of college stadiums, we hosted Kansas State, Rice, Ohio, Army, Tulsa, Navy, and SMU as OOC opponents, with no FCS opponents. As I have said all along, at some point, there are going to be very loud groups wondering why we paid $78 million dollars and have an athletics fee when the previous dump was more than enough to cover the people and teams that came to town for a game. I sure as hell wouldn't want to be the one who has to answer as to why that was allowed at a place that is mostly apathetic (at best) to UNT sports. If we had run this program in a better fashion, from scheduling on down, it wouldn't ever cross my mind. But when you keep the worst AD in the country in charge after 15 years and he keeps on hiring losers and scheduling games as if he were having to get people to come to Denton HS' old stadium, its only natural to wonder when this will happen.

Well, Houston is a great recruiting market to play a game in, plus UH has about 100x more national name recognition than we have, just because of their SWC history. Denton and UNT don't have any of those advantages, plus a game at SMU or TCU gives you more name recognition for your fans than we do. And, above all that, we have a moron for an AD that has 17 people that keep him in his position, no matter what. It should be apples to apples, but unfortunately for us, its not even apples to oranges, its more like apples to cow patties.

SO, a few things to add on this: 1.) Most importantly, it all doesn't matter, since RV is the AD making the schedule and he will continue to do so for years ahead, as in at least a decade or more. 2.) The general view of scheduling is that G5s have scheduled P5s at home, but the reality is that these games could go away in a blink when the P5s separate from the bottom conferences of the G5, of which the MAC, SBC, and CUSA currently sit in. 3.) No series with an OOC opponent should ever be more than 4 years long at this level. If you want to renew the series, fine. But series that are scheduled for longer than that is lazy--and especially if the one "rival" you have scheduled has the money and ability to buyout at any time they choose. That SMU series will never make it beyond 2018 if SMU turns things around or if we keep beating them. Playing Army for a series of 4 games or less is fine. Playing them 8 times, when they are no better than anyone at the lower level of the G5 is ridiculous. 4.) Schedule Texas State--they immediately should be your contingent for the SMU series going away. Do this by cancelling every FCS opponent scheduled from 2018 and on. If SMU stays, you get a few seasons with 5 home games and a game 45 minutes away with very easy tickets to purchase. If they go away, you gain another Texas school 3.5 hours down the road to play, along with your CUSA West opponents, so even in a 5 game home season, you have another opponent that is easier to get to. 5.) When you have only 5 home games, make sure the OOC game is a good one--as in higher teams in the MWC or AAC, as well as BYU. Most people would rather see a game at Apogee featuring Boise State or the AFA, instead of us playing two home games featuring SMU or Army and a FCS team. I am not even asking for us to schedule P5s, even though we were sold that idea when Apogee was being voted on and after it passed. Just schedule someone that people want to see in Texas--other Texas schools that aren't FCS and playing teams like Army, BYU, MWC, or AAC teams would at least give you a chance to get some new fans to come watch. The FCS games qames are losers all the way around--you are paying for them to come here even though very few new fans are willing to come watch them play, they give you no idea what you have on your team compared to our other scheduled teams, and if you lose, the embarrassment is pretty stout.

They will be the best home opponent in OOC at Apogee since we opened the place up in 2011. The problem with that is that we were told several times that Apogee would open up lots of better OOC games for the fans to see. Instead, our last opponent at Fouts remains light years ahead of anyone else that has come to Denton. Memphis is a fine game to schedule and I am glad we have that deal signed. And Army and SMU are fine, but the series are too long. And SMU will buy this one out if they get any good--its their MO. Right now, they need the game at home for attendance and its a game their fans expect to win. When we throw a wrench into that setup by winning against them or lowering their strength of schedule when they get good again (if??) they will buy this thing out very quickly. And then we can see who RV will schedule to replace them--after watching us handle Tulsa leaving, I wouldn't expect anything good. Memphis is about as good as RV can do--so I applaud him for actually accomplishing something better than Butt Cookman or Incarnate Word...

The Big East in basketball is still a power league. When the Power Conferences pull away from the rest of us, trust me, the Big East schools will be included with the current power leagues. The current Big East has 10 schools that are all private schools with lots of monied alums and big markets to attract TV and recruits. Its not the original Big East from the 80s, but it also isn't that far away from it. Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, Georgetown, Villanova, Xavier, Marquette, DePaul, Butler, and Creighton is still a very solid setup--and they can always poach off other Top A10 or MVC teams that they feel like would be a great compliment to their league. I still don't understand why power conferences don't add some of these schools for non-football admission. Wichita State would be a nice fit in the Big XII, as would Northern Iowa. Gonzaga and St. Mary's would be great schools to be added to the Pac-12. And the SEC, who really needs to upgrade in hoops, could add teams like VCU and Davidson, for example. That strengthens their revenue sports not named football, as well as having another easier school to travel to for regional competition for nonrevenue sports. It'll never happen, but it would make sense for those power leagues to add in basketball-only programs that are very well-respected.

I think Rice's money and academic standing, as well as being in Houston, makes it more appealing than many think. To me, the worst job in CUSA is UAB.

This is a very nice series. I applaud RV for this. Memphis is a team higher up the food chain than we are and they are a recognized name. At this point, I just want higher end G5 names here for OOC opponents. I do wonder if this is due to the fact that SMU is really planning to drop the series with us (as predicted), but if not, SMU and Memphis are good teams to host here, just as long as they aren't paired with FCS spares. To me, this will go back to the fact that the P5 bodybag game almost requires a bought FCS game if you want 6 home games in a season. So, as fans we all have to decide how important is it to watch Incarnate Word and Abilene Christian come to Denton to play us for a 6th home game, with Army and SMU as the other OOC games or if it would be more wise, knowing that the P5 whore game will continue as long as possible, to have a season where you have 5 home games, but your 1 OOC game was against a better opponent, while the next season would feature two solid OOC opponents that gets you 6 home games. For example: @P5 Bodybag, @SMU, Army, @BYU (instead of FCS home game) + 8 CUSA games (4 home/4 away) @P5 bodybag, SMU, @Army, BYU (instead of FCS home game) + 8 CUSA games (4 home/4 away) @P5 bodybag, @SMU, Army, @ Memphis (instead of FCS home game) + 8 CUSA games @P5 bodybag, SMU, @Army, Memphis (instead of FCS home game) + * CUSA games If SMU doesn't buyout the series, take advantage of them being local and getting a 6th close game and not wasting money on paying a FCS team to come here and eat into the money you get from the P5 bodybag game. If SMU buys out the series, replace it with Texas State, to insure you have another Texas opponent that is FBS every year, if you want. Or just schedule more OOC series (meaning the AD cannot be lazy) that are home-and-home. Those FCS games are a complete waste of time, IMO. They don't help you learn anything about your team (see Nicholls State or Texas Southern), but leave open the possibility of getting an embarrassing loss (Portland State) that may cause more pain for your program. If playing a 6th home game every year means you getting to tailgate with your buddies before watching Lamar or Liberty or Butt Cookman play, I'm fairly confident in telling you that less than half of Apogee's filled seats suggests that the FCS opponent didn't provide you or the program with any value whatsoever. And in those years ahead, when CUSA sends us Eastern teams such as Charlotte, ODU, and F_U, with attendance being still under half of capacity, it might have been nice to have not played a FCS spare that you had to give hundreds of thousands to for the right to play us, but instead kept the cash to help with the budget for buyouts, facilities, and increased salaries for deserving coaches.

I don't know about that. BCG is damaged goods. A mid-major or lower will be his return to coaching D-1. UNT would be perfect for him on several levels. One, its in Texas, where he is from and keeps him near his family and friends, as well as HS and Juco coaches he knows very well. He won't EVER have to deal with fans pestering him, which he is known to hate, because of his proclivity towards being fairly private. At his last few stops, his alcohol issues seem to have stemmed from being a private guy in places that the alumni demanded a lot of attention (i.e, UK, A&M, and Tech). Here, he'd have about 30 people that he might have to even get to know on a first name basis, nor would he have to glad-hand a bunch of adoring alumni at various events. He'd probably go to about one roadshow a year, if that. I would think BCG would be very attainable here, if both parties were interested. But I don't see RV hiring BCG, who is known to not get along real well with ADs anyway, much less ones who are an institution within the institution like RV apparently is here.

SMU is the perfect NCAA piñata...they are well-known, easy to slap down because they have no measurable fanbase, and they are a small, private school. I, too, would love the G5s to split from the P5s, whether under NCAA rules or another ruling body. I think they could do it and still be able to build themselves up in a similar fashion to what minor leagues in baseball do, which is usually to be a regional collection of teams that helps control costs.

Beginning? More like "come to expect"...

Great stuff, guys...Morris is probably the key to this upcoming season being remotely successful. Those WRs need a QB that can actually throw a ball downfield--to them. The lines will be the key, as usual. If they can keep Morris healthy and get Wilson some running lanes, they have a chance to put up some great numbers. The Defensive front seven is the biggest worry, but it sounds like a new regime has them playing harder. Maybe the scheme can get us some extra stops and TOs...

UNT--The Creative Heartbeat of Texas--appeals to the fine arts students and alumni UNT--120 Years of Teacher Preparation--appeals to the future educators, as well as alums in that field, and it talks up our history UNT--Green Light to Greatness--??? UNT--Among the Best for Thousands Less (not shown)--appeals to those looking for low costs The university pretty well touches on the three areas that they are using as their main windows in these billboards--incredible music and fine arts, great history of educating teachers, and having lower costs for students. And the results from that are rather impressive--we get tons of students, many of whom go on to have wonderful careers as teachers and within the areas of music and fine arts. Its not as if they have failed with these areas of interest. It just doesn't involve anything with athletics. And being in the minority of the UNT Family on this board, the rest of us just have to understand that this is how it has always been and currently is today. Will that change in the future? It all depends on the leadership's guidance, which right now cannot be more clear in telling anyone with a brain that winning in athletics and being proud of our teams are nowhere near being important to them, which is the polar opposite of how revenue athletics are treated at every other university in this state with a FBS or FCS program.

If you commit to Tony Benford as your head coach sometime in the next 9 months, you either have no other option or you really like living on the edge...

That's the whole problem, though. We don't care about winning in revenue sports, institutionally. We care about enrollment and music and arts. Those are the primary windows of the university. I'm not even saying that they are wrong in the way they have chosen to go--we have a gigantic enrollment and a world-renown music school. Its just that no other school in the Southwest does it this way.

I totally agree with you. That ship sailed and we watched it leave. As for Baylor and TCU, they will end up in a similar situation as UH and SMU. They will play in conferences that will not be power league levels, but they will be allowed to continue to compete against them and even earn a spot in a bowl game against them, just not the playoffs.

OK, well we are incredibly awesome and highly ranked at music and arts. And I agree our location as a truer college town is very attractive, as is our history of starting off as a teacher's college, meaning we have always valued academia. Not sure how you use those in a way that really helps athletics, but that isn't the priority here anyway, so I think that you can use all of those to show that we do excel at something, that are alumni are proud of those areas, and that prospective students can take advantage of being in a great college town to get that college degree and experience instead of settling for Arlington, Richardson, or the other UNT satellite locations in Duncanville or Frisco... That's as bad as the "Welcome ______ Nation!!"...

We probably couldn't afford to pay Dickey for that long back then... What's even worse about that 5-year extension is that nobody was knocking down McCarney's door for a job. I think every sensible fan recognized that Mac deserved something like an extra year or two on his deal, plus a raise, after that great 2013 season, but it didn't take long to see that recruiting had been putrid under him and wasn't improving. I truly believe with all of my heart that McCarney thought this was going to be the Texas version of USF, a large public school, surrounded by great high school talent, and with a large enrollment of students and alumni that wanted football to be a big deal here. He believed recruiting here was going to be like shooting fish in a barrel, like it was when he went to USF. What USF had that UNT didn't have, though, was a reputation for building up a winner. Those recruits and their coaches and parents didn't consider USF a safety net school or as a loser in football. He could never get over this and, in the end, that lack of developed talent, especially at QB, ended his coaching career. Hopefully, Littrell can change this mindset with these recruits and their coaches and parents--because that's the only chance he has of building this back up to a winner. Dodge got talented offensive players here, but his ability to lead them at this level was below awful. Dickey got a few great recruits here, but his attitude and gameplan just screamed gve-up and the recruiting really dropped off. If Littrell can emulate the best things Dickey and Dodge were able to do with recruiting, and then actually coach the team with an attitude of excitement and positivity, he will have accomplished some great things here by the time he is done.