untjim1995

Benford has really shown us some great results by being cheap and allowing this fraud to coach in the last year of his contract. Not to mention the fact that recruiting anyone with a brain to come here and commit to play is nil. The next coach will have some talent on the roster but he won't have any help coming from the HS ranks. RV'd

I still don't see how the P5s lose any lawsuit with G5s or FCS. I'm not saying you can't try, nor am I saying any G5 should voluntarily stop playing at the highest level they can. But I'm just seeing a scenario where the power teams and their networks break away for good from the rest of us. And then any lawsuit is going to be looked at as free markets speaking for larger budgets playing each other. Any lawyer worth their salt is going to say that Wisconsin spending $28 million on football and playing in a conference with other schools with similar funding should be able to determine who they play against and that a team with $8 million in funding because of limited resources and smaller fan bases. Id love for UNT to play in a conference with other power schools, but there hasn't been one time that another power league would consider inviting us, in part because of our woeful support and losing. Texas, A&M, Tech, and others built up what they have today, Why should they be compelled to be in a system that requires a team like ours to play in a playoff if they decide they don't want teams that are basically have-nots of our own efforts? I get the AAC and MWC having schools that are on par with several bad P5 teams and that they deserve a chance to earn a playoff spot, but I'm sorry, CUSA, SBC, and MAC schools don't have the budgets, following, or resources to make those higher up the food chain see how they bring any value to the system. And as much as I hate that, it's the reality that the money of these NFL-life programs carry with their fans and media.

Part of it, I think, is linked to lots of losing since the early 80s, the drop down to I-AA for 12 years with a very lowly funded program, and a half-ass effort when we moved up to I-A in 1995. The other part, I believe, is connected to a city that loves music and arts, but has either loathed or acted apathetic toward UNT athletics. TX HS coaches and parents have long memories--and that has pushed us super low on the recruiting front in the region.

I think this is the absolute perfect outcome for the G5s, but I doubt it ever happens. The Power Leagues know that the Big XII falling apart is inevitable and will open up four conference champions becoming the playoff teams each year. I actually think rankings will be moot as the regular season ends and teams make their conference championship games, with winners getting the playoff spots.

Then why can't we recruit better? Change coaches, stadiums, and conferences and nothing changes in our recruiting rankings against our peers while sitting in this "hot bed" of recruiting. Ive said it before, but until someone shows us something different, recruiting here is a hard sell. Except for Dickey's one stealth class that became the heart of those SBC Champions, as well as Dodge's first class full of offensive skill players, the other classes here since 1995 have been rated very low. To me, that's about being a loser, as well as being in a town that is well-known for not supporting the program, sometimes even showing that it loathes having football at UNT. That's pretty tough to overcome, until someone prices otherwise.

Ok--so this is all about money. The networks pay a lot to cover these schools and conferences that make many millions from their programs. Notre Dame hasn't joined a conference in full for football because networks give them enough $$ to keep them from doing it. Like it or not, the P5s have the money because they have the following, which leads to the media coverage and bowl tie-ins. At some point, Western Michigan can have a great season and spend $8 million on their program, but they know that a reward of playing P5s who spend tens of millions more on their program won't ever add up to getting invited to the club. When you host teams that bring in attendance of 15k to 30k, it's not gonna add up to being included in the club that has games attended by 40k or more in paid attendance at a high price compared to what we charge. Some schools in the MWC and AAC can make this argument, but the majority of G5s cannot. It's just hard to see how we, at a school that cannot average 20k in attendance for a season, deserve a spot in the same level as the P5s. We haven't done the job to cultivate the following that they have done--it's just the truth, which is hard to swallow. Again, if the system lets us compete for a national championship, we should thank our lucky stars, but that doesn't add up to the reality that is coming. Those Power Leagues know who is getting paid by networks and who isn't, as well as who is being sought after by big bowls and who isn't. The NCAA isn't going to let those schools go away, so they will let them play by their own rules. And the G5s will let them do it if they can still play them or if it means the NCAA tournament and College World Series won't go away from them. Follow the money and you can see where the trail ends. It's still the ONLY thing that truly matters in this argument.

This post, right here, is how you troll a message board...bravo!!

I am hopeful that we will finish in the top seven in recruiting in the league this year. I think the only way recruiting improves here is if Littrell can follow the path that Johnny Jones did, which was to show HS coaches around here that he was building something. Otherwise, those HS coaches just go back to looking at us as a fallback at best for their recruits. Until someone can do this here, this job will continue to be viewed as a tough place to recruit to.

Why hasn't this happened yet? Because the G5s have some great law schools...something tells me that they know the outcome and the lost money from no longer getting those P5 dollars.

P5 conference will be a dead term when the Big XII dies off by 2025. Then the G5s will get some additions. It's why I wanted in the MWC so badly--that league will always get a chance to play OOC games and have its champion play for a BCS bowl game, at the very least. Ditto for the AAC, which SMU blocks us from ever joining. Ill be the first to admit that I just don't see us ever getting admitted to the MWC or any other conference above us. They can get bigger and better names than UNT when the Big XII folds, both in Texas and outside of the state. We let ourselves fall to i-aa at the absolute wrong time in history, when it was basically decided to stay down there for 12 years, then move up to continue playing in a toilet bowl facility while scheduling every bodybag game we could get. That philosophy allowed us to have an AD for 15 years, who watched over a destruction of any potential move upward. Today, unlike 1982, we may get officially punted downward for good, and not of our choice or volition. Maybe a lawsuit works and the have-nots get to stay included as bodybag opponents for the power conference giants--but I know that the media, major conferences, and the NCAA don't want that to occur. As always, follow that money trail to where things end up--and this one won't end up as us being peers in any way, shape, or form, with Texas, OU, Arkansas, A&M, etc...

Scott Cross isn't coming here. If he leaves his alma mater, it will be for a much higher profile job than us.

If you want to think of how much worse it could be around here, imagine if RV was still the AD here while this mess was still going...

I'll tell you who would dream for North Texas to have a season like Western Michigan, Houston, or Northern Illinois has had in recent seasons...the Cotton Bowl in the year that the G5 has to play in its game. Could you imagine what it would be like around here if we were undefeated and playing Wisconsin on New Years Day in Arlington?

If JJ is available, I'd have to assume he'd be the favorite to come back. He has the support of the big donors, administration, Denton civic leaders, and most of the fanbase that is both still around and used to be here. I'd be willing to bet if he's out at LSU, he'll be a finalist for the job here--at worst.

I'll go with 7-11, plus 1-1 in the CUSA Tourney. We get blown out by every decent team on our schedule in conference, but win against the putrid teams and a few average teams at home.

Here's a question for all of you: If/when the Power schools move on and if we are relegated to a permanent lower level, but it's with the other MAC, CUSA, SBC, and top FCS schools, will you still support our alma mater's program like you do today? I mean in this likely scenario, it won't be our fault that we aren't allowed to play the power schools anymore. Would a game at home versus La Tech to win CUSA West and earn a playoff bid still get folks to Apogee? I'd believe it still would, even if it's not as a top-tier level college football game.

I think we will see an uptick this upcoming year. I think Littrell and Baker provide enough new optimism that RV and Mac could not provide, especially RV, who had just burned too many bridges and didn't motivate anyone to do better within the AD or with the fan base.

If you cannot do number 3--for us, it's only the MWC, UTSA has both options available because SMU won't block them--there's only two choices...go down to the next level and play the other G5 teams and top FCS teams in the new setup or go independent and hope and pray that other P5s and those in the AAC/MWC would still play us. I don't see any other path in the decade ahead. We made this bed a long time ago, when we dropped down on our own and stayed at the 1-aa (FCS) level when the SWC and Big Eight were at their best, killing generations of potential fans and dollars. We moved up in 1995 because the administration was told that we could make more money by whoring ourselves out to big schools for huge paydays--and it happened, just as they thought. And only because Fouts couldn't handle game days without lots of extra generators did we finally get a SGA representative to fight for a vote for a new stadium. And Apogee is wonderful, state of the art...but it doesn't change the fact that we started all of this too late. Even TCU, with its success and money and it's Big XII spot will see that it was fleeting. UH, Boise, BYU, Cincy, Memphis, UCF, USF, UConn, etc...they cannot get in the party. The rest of us cannot even get into the parking lot. That's the plight of a g5 program that shares a market with two schools that sit higher up the food chain than we do. The work we have done in the last decade should have been done 30-40 years earlier--it wasn't, so our bed is pretty well made.

Let me be clear--this will happen. There is not a thing that any G5 or FCS school can do about it, either. No lawsuit will change this.

So how is it giving up if the Power Leagues won't allow you to play them or join their club? Do you just play as an independent and hope that Power League teams will still schedule you?

We aren't dropping to FCS and going down to 65 scholarships. If anything, the FCS schools that are in the top 20 will move up to having 82 scholarships. This isn't 1982 and we aren't sitting in the middle of the best conference in the country within our own state where cheating ran rampant and the media only cared about them. If we get 15k-20k for a game against G5s today, we will in the years ahead, too...particularly if you regionalize the conferences. We will get good crowds playing teams like Rice, La Tech, UTEP, UTSA, Texas State, etc... Look, I want UNT playing in the MWC or higher, but I also want to win the lottery. Neither appears to have much chance of occurring. Houston, who is waaayyyyyy higher than us on the college football totem pole, can't get into the power leagues. Neither can UConn, Memphis, Cincinnati, Boise State, etc...the doors are closed and locked up. And the only time it will open again will be to kick out teams when the Big XII falls apart and TCU, Baylor, Iowa State, and possibly K-State, Okie Lite, and Texas Tech are no longer power teams. When that happens, the MWC/AAC/Big XII teams will combine to be the two leagues that can still compete for BCS games and scheduling OOC games against those power schools. Its what the Power Leagues want, administratively, as well as from the big media partners, too.

This will never happen. First of all, the G5s aren't going to upset the apple cart, as they continue getting paid for the beatings they get scheduled to take every year, just to pay for their non-revenue sports. Second, the legislatures and judges that fill the benches and government houses of the country are full of grads and donors from the P5s. They are just gonna USFL the G5 on any lawsuits. Lastly, they will allow two conferences to have teams from their leagues compete to play them, both in OOC an din bowl games. Everyone else will be deemed minor leagues. If we are going to be in a minor league, give the kids a chance to compete for a national title, which is the greatness of the lower divisions having a playoff system. I've long felt this way about the non-power leagues. By the way, if you make this deal and it keeps the NCAA Tournament and College World Series as is, this should be done in a heartbeat.

I am also one that was with you. This is going to happen anyway, so it would be nice to get a decent contract from someone that would love to have a 16 team playoff for the month of December.

If you've been a UNT fan in the last 40 years, you've seen Fry and Moore get bought away, then have seen or heard whispers about coaches like Simon, Dickey, Dodge, and McCarney having any sustained success here against people that the college football world cares about leading to new jobs up the totem pole, like Johnny Jones did. And then the success never happened. Until or unless recruiting can pick up here, Littrell will be no different. If he can do it, and the wins follow like it should, then he will have his choices of jobs at the P5 level. If not, and we have no idea if it can be done here with him or anyone else, quite frankly, then he will be a coordinator or position coach somewhere else. It always amazes me on here just how much people think we should be able to get great talent here because of our location and Texas HS football being a hotbed, yada, yada, yada...until it's done here, we are still going to be looking up at the other schools we want to be associated with athletically.

I wonder if a team in the AAC or the MWC could get him if he builds this place into a winner? Tulsa, SMU, etc...they have $$$