untjim1995

That was on us, though. We were the idiots that kept him for 15 years.

@MeanGreenTexan this thread is my proof of the fact that the fan base doesn't want to go out west again, even though the MWC is a much better league and did help TCU vault upward rather significantly. It's a moot point, since the MWC doesn't want us, either. But this fan base likes to travel to games easily and as long as they get SMU on the schedule, they are very content with that. Im with you, but the reality is that it's not gonna happen.

Those middle Power teams and low ones will be glad to do it because the TV money is gigantic for them. I'll always remember the year TCU was ranked in the top ten and played an undefeated, top ten ranked Boise State team on the Poinsettia Bowl. TCU won it, and both teams finished in the top ten. And combined, both teams earned less bowl money than a 3 win Baylor squad who hadn't had a winning season in over a decade. That's why Baylor and Tech will do almost anything to stay at the power conference level. Otherwise, they know they'll go the way of SMU and UH, only drawing well when they win, but never making big cash ever again from networks and attendance demand.

What really sucks about us playing the bodybag games that RV scheduled--except for Iowa, which I believe was scheduled correctly if you need a bodybag game (and we do)--is that we chose to play Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, LSU, Alabama, and other regional powerhouses who our own alums and students follow and cheer for because they grew up following them or because we have never given them a reason to care for us. So, when we lose 79-10 to OU, 65-0 to UT, 56-3 to LSU, and whatever Ark and Bama beat us by, all it does is reinforce to those alumni and students that we aren't any good compared to these behemoths. The same goes for the DFW media around here. If you play these games, playing Iowa and Wisconsin is the way to go. Big, slow teams from far away--you might be able to compete with them, but even losing to them doesn't hurt you like it does losing to the Southern Powerhouses we schedule. Playing at Texas A&M and Arkansas in the future just kills momentum you might be building when we get lose to them, usually very badly.

I saw today a list that had UAB as #130 out of 130 FBS schools...again, if we cannot beat Lamar and UAB at home, then the rest of the schedule is too hard for us...

And that's fine. That's what they get for the money and control they wield. I wish we had the same issue, but there are plenty of music majors and arts majors at UT and OU that wish they had the same advantages and resources that UNT provides their musicians and artists. Its all in what you place value in. I never imagined being at a point where I wanted to see these NFL-lite and NBA-lite programs separate, but its not right calling North Texas, Middle Tennessee, Louisiana Tech, Arkansas State, or Western Kentucky the same level as Texas, Tennessee, Louisiana State, Arkansas, or Kentucky. The latter gets their prestige from being the main school(s) in the state, filling their legislative houses with their alumni, as well as their journalists. They have gamed the system for full control, but then use the former to buy easy wins. Its like watching a Varsity HS team play a Freshmen Team in the strong majority of games. Sure, Appy State beat Michigan and others have pulled off these kinds of upsets, but they are the exceptions, not the rule. These games shouldn't get played and when they don't, the Texas Tech's of the world can go and be the piñata to these monster programs just to say they are playing at the top level, even though they will never have the resources to stay up with them.

More power to them--they make the money, they should spend it how they want. It certainly isn't helping them win anything of major note. I cannot wait for the day when the Power Giants split off. They are about as much of a "college" team, in its traditional meaning, as Tony Benford was a head basketball coach. Maybe both have had those titles, but they don't really convey the truth. Let Texas keep building and rewarding their powder-puff kids without merit and have to see them lose to the Kansas's of the world, but play in a world where they cannot buy wins because the system lets them.

It changes if you beat people that fans and media care about. At least you'd have the chance of beating ranked teams in the MWC in football and basketball. In the SBCUSA, not much chance to achieve that...but the games may start an Hour or two later if we play out west, so let's stick with the fun that is playing F_U at 6:00.

I know you hate it, as do I, but a school like SFA is much closer to us in competition level than we are to a Big XII school. We made this bed decades ago. There's just not much that can be down at this point. It could've been different if we had committed to winning when we moved up in 1995, but the clear reality is that we did that to get more cash--nothing else. And has been mentioned, our location didn't help us, either. Those AAC schools aren't in trouble for this relegation because of their budgets and historic success/name recognition. They aren't in need of realigning like the SBCUSA schools are, who need to adopt a MAC-like geographic setup ASAP.

This is what will happen--no matter what. I don't know that the AAC and MWC will be forced to be on this level, but I expect the SBC, MAC, and CUSA to form their own level of play that includes a playoff system and national championship.

If it provides easy games to travel to, and it doesn't cost us a game against SMU, then that is what the UNT fan wants. RV knew that all too well...

I cannot agree with you more...and its clearly the minority view around here. Hell, there were many posters here who argued to "Build the Belt" over playing out west in the MWC ever again... Maybe they are all correct, but I just don't see how playing SBCUSA teams is anything better than the MWC, but I get that its more expensive for travel and that there may be a game or two that start late. Somehow, I think I'd be more interested in a football game at Boise State at 9:00 or a basketball game at UNLV at 9:30 than I ever will be for a 6:00 kickoff against F_U or a 5:00 tipoff against Charlotte...

MGT, they saw BYU, Utah, and TCU leave in 2012, leaving them with no Utah or Texas teams. They added Utah State to make up for the losses of the Utes and Cougars, but decided that San Jose State was a better fit for them than getting back into the same market they had before with TCU, but with a much bigger alumni base and student body. Instead, they didn't even look our way. And Cerebus, who is often a voice of reason around here and seems to have the pulse of the fanbase better than most, echoes the same sentiment of many others here, that they don't want to go out west to play. They like playing teams that are easy to travel to and getting to play SMU in a series--literally, that's al that matters to the majority of the fanbase here. And read the post above to see my point being proven... Versus sending it to Virginia and Florida??

We've been over this: The MWC doesn't want us and our fans don't want the MWC, no matter how much you and I wish that were different on both cases. Don't have to go up to 12, but that seems to work well as a number to play divisional rivals. I just see the time coming when the lower G5s and the top FCS schools are in a new division of play, that's why I brought those two schools up...

Neal might put his foot down on the school of music, but there is no way anyone is convincing them that they aren't the centerpiece of this university. They believe that the football games surrounds their halftime performance, not the other way around like it is everywhere else. And Denton agrees with that thought, as well.

I think they know this has to be done sooner rather than later. Like Arkstfan said, regional tv would like this kind of league, since it gets TV sets in Little Rock, Hotsprings, Monroe, Shreveport, DFW, El Paso, San Antonio, Austin, Houston,Lafayette, and New Orleans to watch these SBCUSA teams here in the Arklatex region. I can see Sam Houston and SFA moving up, too, so you get their alumni in East Texas and around Houston to join in, too. NMSU, La Tech, ULL, Rice, Texas State, and SFA UTEP, Arky State, ULM, UNT, UTSA, and SHSU Every division plays each other, plus you play one rival every year from the other division (listed above/below in the names), plus two other non-divisional conference mates every year.

I agree...and people's heads are really gonna spin if/when UTSA is playing SMU in the AAC and we are still a CUSA team now playing Texas State...

He knows that SMU doesn't view us that way, though, nor does La Tech. But he does know that UTSA hates our guts and we hate losing to them.

I guess my view is that you set yourself into the best scenario you can that combines winning potential with cost control. While CUSA is waaayyyy better than the old SBC, we could still tighten that up and get the best of both worlds in a conference that has teams people have heard of and care about in the region, while also being able to beat them (hopefully) and travel rather inexpensively to their cities. If you can succeed at winning there and seeing increased profits, then you can hope it gets the attention of another conference that believes we would provide more to them than SMU or TCU would be able to undersell and get us a place at the table with them. Could that happen? Probably a better chance with TCU than there ever will be with SMU, but I wouldn't expect it to be much better. What I cannot see, even though I wish the path was clear to see, is a place for UNT in one of those two conferences above us in the G5. Being blocked, blackballed, etc,,,whatever you call it, the same old reality of sharing a TV market with TCU and SMU is just a hurdle we have never come close to leaping. If that is the case, its likely that we could even be in a SBCUSA setup that doesn't include UTEP, Rice, UTSA, and MUTS. While tough to digest as UNT fans/alumni, it can only be laid at the feet of the BOR and Administration who let us flounder for these last two decades when we had the chance to surpass either SMU or TCU. In the mid 90s, TCU was pure dogshit until they spent some money and hired a proven winner in Dennis Franchione, who then left and they replaced him with his DC, Gary Patterson. We played them three times, lost all three in fairly competitive games, but we were building up into a good program, winning SBC titles in 4 straight seasons. I go back to this again, but in 2005, coming off our last SBC Championship, SI had their annual preseason rankings out of all FBS teams back then, and we were exactly one spot behind TCU. Then, we went 2-9 and the program basically began dying, while TCU finished in the top 10. Then, when both SMU and us were both sucking so bad in the 2005-2008 timeframe, we hired Todd Dodge in 2007 from a high school for about $300K, while they paid out $2 million in 2008 to bring over June Jones from Hawaii, fresh off a BCS bowl berth. By 2009, we were finishing up another 2 win season, giving us a whopping 10-40 record in those four preceding years while playing in the Mighty Sun Belt, and SMU was winning a bowl game and beginning a run of 4 straight bowl berths. SMU hasn't had continued success, but their money and location continues to buy lots of media coverage and conference placement. When we look back at this timeframe in the decades ahead, we are all going to realize just how big of an opportunity we blew here. SMU and TCU weren't SWC big boys anymore, like they were in the 79s and 80s, nor were they that far above us in the mid-to-late 90s and into the 00's. But we never could jump either of them in the eyes of media and conference officials. And once we went back to losing, we kept the same AD in charge, we hired poorly, and we scheduled something awful. While the 1-aa debacle of the 80's basically knocked us into a coma that appears to have been lethal, when we finally got up and at least started running again and began making some progress, we drank koolaid that was poisoned by bad leadership, poor hires, and decisions based almost solely on cost. We got no one to blame but ourselves for this predicament. To me, if we ever move upward above where we are today, conference-wise, it will be due to overcoming some of the most stacked odds anyone could have ever beaten, from a location standpoint, a history standpoint, and a severe lack of funds as compared to other schools in our region. Miraculous is the term I would use to describe what it would take.

I think the BOR and administration are wanting to spend enough to be a G5 program--but that is the hard part because you have other G5s in the state that are higher up the foodchain who do spend lots of $$$ in SMU and UH. And spending money without a guarantee has never really been something we have done much of before. The reality to all of this is the tv revenue being reduced so noticeably. Now, you have three ways to help your bottom line--control spending, increase attendance, and play whore games. Geographically, we can accomplish the first two ways, for sure. And number three has been tried and done infinitum over the decades. If the SBCUSA comes to pass, combining into four separate divisions, that won't be the worst thing that could happen here. If the MWC and AAC won't take us, particularly when the Big XII falls apart, then we are going to have to do something to control costs better. Regionalization will do that, and if certain teams won't play in a division with another team, than the SBCUSA model can probably accommodate this. If we had given the MWC any reason to believe we could have added value there, I still don't believe our fanbase or administration would have gone for it. Its too bad, but the fact will always remain that you can get people to go to watch us play Boise State, AFA, Colorado State, and Fresno State at Apogee over F_Us, ODU, and Charlotte. You can get people to watch us play SDSU, UNM, or UNLV in basketball at the Super Pit, too. But that's not what the majority wants, so it was never gonna get accepted even if they offered us, sadly.

I believe his dad, with the same name and was also from Waco, was a RB for our football team in the early 90'ss.

I think the Marching Band has one job at almost every school in the country--get the crowd fired up with the fight song, alma mater, and other crowd favorites. I don't think that is what is the mission of the Green Brigade and I don't believe that the majority of the UNT fans want that to be the case. I cannot tell you how many times I have been in line to buy a general admission ticket back at Fouts and heard people in front of me or next to me ask the ticket office where was the best seat to watch the band march in and perform at halftime because that was how long they were gonna stick around. I am not even saying that is wrong, but it is certainly different from attending a game at any other school in this region of the country.

I see us winning 5 or 6 games against the schedule. Sure wins: Lamar and UAB (2 wins) Probable Wins: @ Rice, UTSA, UTEP (2 wins Possible Wins: Army, @ FAU, ODU (1-2 wins) Probable Losses: @SMU, @ La Tech, @ USM (0-1 win) Just Don't Let the Check Bounce and Get Anyone Hurt: @ Iowa (0 win)

It has seemed over the years that Pac-12 schools have traveled to MWC opponents more frequently, not unlike some of the ACC schools playing eastern AAC schools on the road. I know Boise has faced the three NW Pac-12 schools quite a bit, while BYU hosted the southern Pac-12 schools some. But your point is correct about thinking they would play more home-and-home series. Of course, the Pac-12 now plays the B1G teams in at least one OOC game usually, so that leaves you 3 more home games, of which at least 1 or 2 are bought games, so that limits your scheduling flexibility some. I know this was one of the reasons that Nebraska in the B1G cancelled a game in Chicago against NIU, which was part of a 4 for 1 series, but NIU still accepts the remaining 4 games in Lincoln for the cash. I still find Okie State's acceptance of road games at MAC, CUSA, and SBC games as odd, but they probably look at them as easier road wins that help to teach kids how to get focused for the bigger road games ahead in their season. Gundy sure look at this completely different that every other Power League school, for sure.

My favorite all time Spike Dykes quote was at a preseason SWC coaches media day and he was complaining about how players don't work hard enough for his liking--that they were used to things being given to them without effort. He said, "Today, when you talk about manual labor, they think you're taking about a TE from McAllen..."