untjim1995

Rice was a doormat by the mid-70s, leaving the Houston market void of anything to support locally, unlike DFW, which had SMU and TCU, as well as a lot of Baylor influence, as well. UH had to overcome one school, with nobody else supporting their efforts to block Houston from joining. North Texas had three local to fairly local schools blocking the path, as well as Rice supporting them from Houston. From what we know, Arkansas, Texas, Houston, A&M, and Tech were either in favor of us joining or would agnostic to it. If we had gotten in, it would be so interesting to see where we would be today. I suspect it would be similar to where UH has been, maybe not quite as successful in football as you guys have been, post-SWC, but similar in conference-affiliation. Not only that, but we would have jumped SMU on the totem pole because of their death penalty and actually being in the SWC at the same time. The bigger one to look at, though, is the Big Eight. Let's say we joined them in the late 70's/early 80's. That's a conference that had national champions in football in the 70s and 80s in Nebraska and Oklahoma, as well as a national champion in basketball in Kansas in the 80's--not even to mention Colorado's rise to the top in the early 90's in football, as well as Oklahoma, Missouri, and K-State's excellent basketball programs of that time. If we had any modicum of success in that league, even with the SWC at its peak, we would have gotten a lot of attention from media, fans, and recruits. We would have been playing in an actual real football stadium in Denton, too, if we got to play OU, OSU, KU, KSU, CU, MU, ISU, and NU every other year here in football, not to mention what those teams would have brought each year to the Super Pit. Its why that decision in 1978 to not get included into the SWC is so glaring here. We should have had a Plan B or a better Plan A, but we didn't. We get shot down, our teams of the 70s don't get a bowl bid or an NCAA bid, Fry and Blakely leave, the Old Nestors regain control, we drop down to I-AA for 12 years, join some collection of teams called the Southland Conference, and the rest is history. We killed off generations of fans at a time when we should have been gaining fans, not to mention huge numbers of students and alumni at our growing university. It haunts us today in everything--from attendance, fundraising, and recruiting.

The CoogFans site, just like PonyFans, and KillerFrogs from years ago, always say the same thing about playing us in a series that involves a game in Denton. They play us when they need us, for wins or for help at the gate (or both in SMUs case). I love playing all those old SWC jack-wagons that got left behind when the Big 12 formed. They got so much media support that we could have only dreamed of having for decades, even still today. We never got even a crumb of help from these schools when it was obvious we would have been a great fit for the SWC. I still cannot understand for the life of me why Fry didn't try to get us into the old Big Eight at the same time and create a bidding war, because the SWC wouldn't want any of those schools getting more time in Texas to steal recruits. We would have been the perfect fit up there, too, with all big public schools, as well as at the time, a great basketball arena that would have allowed us to fit in even more nicely with that league. Instead, we didn't, predictably, even get a chance at the SWC, Fry left to Iowa, and we basically just gave up for about the next 20 years.

Exactly

The other thing that people don't realize about Boise State's rise up was that the Pac-12 North Teams would actually play games at Boise. It gave them huge wins over Oregon, Oregon State, and Washington in seasons past. It would be like us getting OU, UT, or A&M to play here and then we beat them.

Nowadays, many Power Schools will only play one road game, often its against other Power schools. They can because of their TV money and their gate from a home game, even at places like Kansas, Indiana, UVa, etc...What you will see is some of these downtrodden teams of the P5 play at G5s because they are hope they can get a win on the road against a lower opponent and can help bring a winning attitude to their team. Then, you have guys like Gundy at OSU that likes playing road games at G5s because he views them as good ways to teach his kids about winning on the road before conference season starts up. And, finally, you will see schools play at G5s that give their alumni an easy game to attend and helps with recruiting, like Texas has done with Rice in the past or OU does with Tulsa.

You might be right, but having seen you lose to Texas state, UTEP, UTSA, and SMU in recent years makes me believe that UNT might just add our names to that list of in-state TX teams to beat y'all. I like Applewhite a lot and I think he'll do a good job down there at UH before somebody else comes calling from the power conferences.

UH is an excellent replacement for Army. Texas opponent in the G5, but much higher than us on the college football totem pole, as well as giving us plenty of recruits to show TX parents and coaches that we play regularly near their families. Still don't like the Liberty series, but this is a great win.

Wren Baker, as I posted weeks ago, if you replaced Army with UH, I will gladly proclaim your greatness for scheduling someone who will bring more people to Apogee than Army. I believe you have done this, with UH having the number of fans and alumni following their program right now and living near here. This is a very solid replacement. Great job, Wren Baker!!

The Big 12's big three, (UT, OU, and KU) know that the next realignment will have them at the Big Boys' Table, so they aren't too upset with waiting out the GOR running out in 2025. I suspect WVU feels the same, too. The others have to depend on in-state help or know that they had better enjoy the cash while they are getting it (i.e. Baylor, TCU, and ISU).

I saw that when you add in Tier 3 rights, UT made $49.8 Million, OU, made $40.8 million, KU made $39.8 million, and WVU made $37.8 million. And that's why the Big 12 stays at 10 members.

Hey snowflake, the truth isn't disrespecting anyone. Is he not a UNT commit that has had only one FBS offer, which was from us? Did anyone besmirch the kid or say that he shouldn't be here? No. Sorry we bothered you with facts in your safe space. Try not to get so triggered...

Some people just want to be homers and cannot handle anyone else who doesn't carry a Mean Green pennant with them at all times. Everything you pointed out is exactly right. He's a great kid, glad he's here, and SL's staff believes in him--unfortunately, as is too often the case here, so do a lot of other FCS staffs, just not any other FBS staff.

Apparently not...

t wouldn't surprise me one bit to see Texas Tech go after Frank Wilson at UTSA if the Red Raiders are bad again, as predicted, and UTSA is as good as expected. Wilson is a huge recruiter and will have some skins on the wall to sell the Tech alumni on...

The question to this recruiting trouble is why is it so hard to get kids to come here while entertaining offers from almost any other FBS school? Dickey had one good class, so did Dodge, but the rest have been nothing to write home about. What's it gonna take?

I think this, too. Wren is still new to this. Ian McCaw has been an AD for years at a Power School. As I've said, this just needs to be a learning mistake for WB. If it is, we can move forward with a better AD than when he got hired and one who can still be miles better than the predecessor--as long as he doesn't make another colossal mistake like this one appears to be for now. I'll say this, if we lose to Liberty in either game of this series, this will go down as one of the worst mistakes I've ever seen an AD make, schedule-wise...but its not worse for the program, as a whole, than letting 17 people dictate who is in charge of the entire department because he is one of their pals. That nightmare caused us to fall straight into a ditch that may not even be recoverable from...

The biggest improvement any team ever makes is going from awful to average. That 4 game jump was huge, if only because we really should have gone 0-12 the year before this, when UTSA was done to their 5th string QB in the second half of a game in Denton that we won on a late TD. And that last loss against Army could have just as easily been a win. Yes, UTEP murdered us and they were terrible, but it was Senior Day and those things can happen to young teams on the road. But other than them, we lost to the teams we should have lost to and we even won at Army in a game most thought we would lose. IOW, the record improved by 4 wins, but it was even bigger than that. Plus, the mindset of the locker room and the increased experience for the team and staff is basically immeasurable. Its why I feel like we should be able to improve again on our record from last year, even if by one game. That's the harder improvement to see, going from average to good, and good to great. But this schedule for 2017 is as favorable for us as I've seen in a while. Lamar, UAB, UTSA, UTEP, Army, and Old Dominion at home should equal no less than 4 wins, if not all 6. Mix in a win or two at FAU, Rice, SMU, and USM, and now you are looking at 6-8 wins, assuming health doesn't become a huge barrier. I expect 6-6, but I see 8-4 as a realistic upside, as well.

For us, sadly, yes they are...plus we recruit against them and they will bring fans here, all while being a winnable game.

I'm hoping for the best, but I really expect this to be a way to soften the schedule, nothing more. If he gets a UH, Texas State, or some regional P5, I'll change my view, but I don't expect any of these in Denton. If we end up with another 5-game home schedule in 2019, I'm just gonna sit back and realize that Wren Baker just couldn't change the status quo around here, instead following the RV track to getting a great paycheck and having the BOR's good graces to just stay in budget and keep quiet.

Just remember that he also had to work in guys who were recruited here to play a plodding offense. Harrell himself even said it was taking the guys a while to adjust to the new offense last year. I expect everything will be better on offense this year--Fine, Harrell, and SL will be better next season.

I've never imagined RV as a small Asian kid before...

I mean the reality is that Littrell is our coach for at least two more years, no matter what. But if he wants to ever be a head coach anywhere else, he'd be well served to not have a 4 win season with this schedule---ESPECIALLY if UTSA, Rice, and UTEP finish above us. If that happens, the recruiting we have seen here in the last few years will look swell compared to what will happen in that scenario. Think McCarney-esque...

I completely agree. I think that a 6+ win season is a must to continue to create and keep momentum. The schedule is there for it to happen. Wins over Lamar and UAB are no-brainers. No chance games are at Iowa and La Tech. Wins over SMU, USM, UTSA, UTEP, Rice, Army, ODU, and FAU are all possible, so lets say we split those, giving us 4 more wins. Now you are bowling again. If we don't win 6 games with an easier schedule than last year, I'll be disappointed.

When we wanted to get into the second iteration of CUSA in 2005, after Louisville, Cincy, and USF left for the Big East, TCU left for the MWC, and Army went back to being an independent. CUSA, which still had UH, Tulane, Memphis, UAB, USM, and ECU, immediately invited UCF and Marshall from the MAC, as well as SMU, Rice, and Tulsa. But they still needed a 12th school, from the western part of their geography to fill in. The league looked at UTEP, La Tech, and us. We had just come off of a 4 year run at the top of the SBC, but had a bad year in 2005, going 2-9. That said, SMU hadn't a winning season since 1997 and wouldn't until 2009, nor were they any good in hoops. Yet they were immediately added. And they immediately decided to support freaking Louisiana Tech for membership, knowing full well that their podunk market wasn't getting picked, but it also made it clear they weren't supporting us to join them in their conference. So, the CUSA leadership went with UTEP, a far-flung school on the map, but with a history of basketball success from long ago in a pretty solid market, but one not nearly as huge as DFW, which could have easily hosted both of us. It didn't help, of course, that we had a football stadium that Pop Warner would have thought was below his standards for kids to play on, much less men. but again, we are a huge school, having come off 4 straight SBC titles with back-to-back national rushing champions, and could offer the entirety of the DFW/North Texas region. And CUSA and SMU made it clear they wanted nothing to do with having us both--and that SMU's history, location, and cash did the talking, even though they sucked ass on the football field for the better part of 20 years after the Death Penalty. I have no way to believe that the AAC, since its basically this entire group that moved up, except for small market Marshall and USM, as well as near bankrupt UAB and tiny enrollment Rice. All but Arkansas State, ULL, ULM, and Troy moved up to the current CUSA , for many of the same reasons that USM and Marshall got stuck in the current CUSA, because they provided no TV market. SMU would gladly support Rice, UTSA, and UTEP before they would support La Tech again...and LT is miles ahead of us in getting their support, which private buddies Tulsa and Tulane would gladly follow if UH, Memphis, Cincy, UConn, UCF, or USF ever leave. They'd love Rice back for the academics and to keep a presence in Houston and Rice would love to go back into a conference with them.

Has anyone checked into seeing if Mason Fine has a relative that was buddies with Seth Littrell while he was at OU??? sarcasm alert...or maybe not