untjim1995

I cannot agree with you more...and its clearly the minority view around here. Hell, there were many posters here who argued to "Build the Belt" over playing out west in the MWC ever again... Maybe they are all correct, but I just don't see how playing SBCUSA teams is anything better than the MWC, but I get that its more expensive for travel and that there may be a game or two that start late. Somehow, I think I'd be more interested in a football game at Boise State at 9:00 or a basketball game at UNLV at 9:30 than I ever will be for a 6:00 kickoff against F_U or a 5:00 tipoff against Charlotte...

MGT, they saw BYU, Utah, and TCU leave in 2012, leaving them with no Utah or Texas teams. They added Utah State to make up for the losses of the Utes and Cougars, but decided that San Jose State was a better fit for them than getting back into the same market they had before with TCU, but with a much bigger alumni base and student body. Instead, they didn't even look our way. And Cerebus, who is often a voice of reason around here and seems to have the pulse of the fanbase better than most, echoes the same sentiment of many others here, that they don't want to go out west to play. They like playing teams that are easy to travel to and getting to play SMU in a series--literally, that's al that matters to the majority of the fanbase here. And read the post above to see my point being proven... Versus sending it to Virginia and Florida??

We've been over this: The MWC doesn't want us and our fans don't want the MWC, no matter how much you and I wish that were different on both cases. Don't have to go up to 12, but that seems to work well as a number to play divisional rivals. I just see the time coming when the lower G5s and the top FCS schools are in a new division of play, that's why I brought those two schools up...

Neal might put his foot down on the school of music, but there is no way anyone is convincing them that they aren't the centerpiece of this university. They believe that the football games surrounds their halftime performance, not the other way around like it is everywhere else. And Denton agrees with that thought, as well.

I think they know this has to be done sooner rather than later. Like Arkstfan said, regional tv would like this kind of league, since it gets TV sets in Little Rock, Hotsprings, Monroe, Shreveport, DFW, El Paso, San Antonio, Austin, Houston,Lafayette, and New Orleans to watch these SBCUSA teams here in the Arklatex region. I can see Sam Houston and SFA moving up, too, so you get their alumni in East Texas and around Houston to join in, too. NMSU, La Tech, ULL, Rice, Texas State, and SFA UTEP, Arky State, ULM, UNT, UTSA, and SHSU Every division plays each other, plus you play one rival every year from the other division (listed above/below in the names), plus two other non-divisional conference mates every year.

I agree...and people's heads are really gonna spin if/when UTSA is playing SMU in the AAC and we are still a CUSA team now playing Texas State...

He knows that SMU doesn't view us that way, though, nor does La Tech. But he does know that UTSA hates our guts and we hate losing to them.

I guess my view is that you set yourself into the best scenario you can that combines winning potential with cost control. While CUSA is waaayyyy better than the old SBC, we could still tighten that up and get the best of both worlds in a conference that has teams people have heard of and care about in the region, while also being able to beat them (hopefully) and travel rather inexpensively to their cities. If you can succeed at winning there and seeing increased profits, then you can hope it gets the attention of another conference that believes we would provide more to them than SMU or TCU would be able to undersell and get us a place at the table with them. Could that happen? Probably a better chance with TCU than there ever will be with SMU, but I wouldn't expect it to be much better. What I cannot see, even though I wish the path was clear to see, is a place for UNT in one of those two conferences above us in the G5. Being blocked, blackballed, etc,,,whatever you call it, the same old reality of sharing a TV market with TCU and SMU is just a hurdle we have never come close to leaping. If that is the case, its likely that we could even be in a SBCUSA setup that doesn't include UTEP, Rice, UTSA, and MUTS. While tough to digest as UNT fans/alumni, it can only be laid at the feet of the BOR and Administration who let us flounder for these last two decades when we had the chance to surpass either SMU or TCU. In the mid 90s, TCU was pure dogshit until they spent some money and hired a proven winner in Dennis Franchione, who then left and they replaced him with his DC, Gary Patterson. We played them three times, lost all three in fairly competitive games, but we were building up into a good program, winning SBC titles in 4 straight seasons. I go back to this again, but in 2005, coming off our last SBC Championship, SI had their annual preseason rankings out of all FBS teams back then, and we were exactly one spot behind TCU. Then, we went 2-9 and the program basically began dying, while TCU finished in the top 10. Then, when both SMU and us were both sucking so bad in the 2005-2008 timeframe, we hired Todd Dodge in 2007 from a high school for about $300K, while they paid out $2 million in 2008 to bring over June Jones from Hawaii, fresh off a BCS bowl berth. By 2009, we were finishing up another 2 win season, giving us a whopping 10-40 record in those four preceding years while playing in the Mighty Sun Belt, and SMU was winning a bowl game and beginning a run of 4 straight bowl berths. SMU hasn't had continued success, but their money and location continues to buy lots of media coverage and conference placement. When we look back at this timeframe in the decades ahead, we are all going to realize just how big of an opportunity we blew here. SMU and TCU weren't SWC big boys anymore, like they were in the 79s and 80s, nor were they that far above us in the mid-to-late 90s and into the 00's. But we never could jump either of them in the eyes of media and conference officials. And once we went back to losing, we kept the same AD in charge, we hired poorly, and we scheduled something awful. While the 1-aa debacle of the 80's basically knocked us into a coma that appears to have been lethal, when we finally got up and at least started running again and began making some progress, we drank koolaid that was poisoned by bad leadership, poor hires, and decisions based almost solely on cost. We got no one to blame but ourselves for this predicament. To me, if we ever move upward above where we are today, conference-wise, it will be due to overcoming some of the most stacked odds anyone could have ever beaten, from a location standpoint, a history standpoint, and a severe lack of funds as compared to other schools in our region. Miraculous is the term I would use to describe what it would take.

I think the BOR and administration are wanting to spend enough to be a G5 program--but that is the hard part because you have other G5s in the state that are higher up the foodchain who do spend lots of $$$ in SMU and UH. And spending money without a guarantee has never really been something we have done much of before. The reality to all of this is the tv revenue being reduced so noticeably. Now, you have three ways to help your bottom line--control spending, increase attendance, and play whore games. Geographically, we can accomplish the first two ways, for sure. And number three has been tried and done infinitum over the decades. If the SBCUSA comes to pass, combining into four separate divisions, that won't be the worst thing that could happen here. If the MWC and AAC won't take us, particularly when the Big XII falls apart, then we are going to have to do something to control costs better. Regionalization will do that, and if certain teams won't play in a division with another team, than the SBCUSA model can probably accommodate this. If we had given the MWC any reason to believe we could have added value there, I still don't believe our fanbase or administration would have gone for it. Its too bad, but the fact will always remain that you can get people to go to watch us play Boise State, AFA, Colorado State, and Fresno State at Apogee over F_Us, ODU, and Charlotte. You can get people to watch us play SDSU, UNM, or UNLV in basketball at the Super Pit, too. But that's not what the majority wants, so it was never gonna get accepted even if they offered us, sadly.

I believe his dad, with the same name and was also from Waco, was a RB for our football team in the early 90'ss.

I think the Marching Band has one job at almost every school in the country--get the crowd fired up with the fight song, alma mater, and other crowd favorites. I don't think that is what is the mission of the Green Brigade and I don't believe that the majority of the UNT fans want that to be the case. I cannot tell you how many times I have been in line to buy a general admission ticket back at Fouts and heard people in front of me or next to me ask the ticket office where was the best seat to watch the band march in and perform at halftime because that was how long they were gonna stick around. I am not even saying that is wrong, but it is certainly different from attending a game at any other school in this region of the country.

I see us winning 5 or 6 games against the schedule. Sure wins: Lamar and UAB (2 wins) Probable Wins: @ Rice, UTSA, UTEP (2 wins Possible Wins: Army, @ FAU, ODU (1-2 wins) Probable Losses: @SMU, @ La Tech, @ USM (0-1 win) Just Don't Let the Check Bounce and Get Anyone Hurt: @ Iowa (0 win)

It has seemed over the years that Pac-12 schools have traveled to MWC opponents more frequently, not unlike some of the ACC schools playing eastern AAC schools on the road. I know Boise has faced the three NW Pac-12 schools quite a bit, while BYU hosted the southern Pac-12 schools some. But your point is correct about thinking they would play more home-and-home series. Of course, the Pac-12 now plays the B1G teams in at least one OOC game usually, so that leaves you 3 more home games, of which at least 1 or 2 are bought games, so that limits your scheduling flexibility some. I know this was one of the reasons that Nebraska in the B1G cancelled a game in Chicago against NIU, which was part of a 4 for 1 series, but NIU still accepts the remaining 4 games in Lincoln for the cash. I still find Okie State's acceptance of road games at MAC, CUSA, and SBC games as odd, but they probably look at them as easier road wins that help to teach kids how to get focused for the bigger road games ahead in their season. Gundy sure look at this completely different that every other Power League school, for sure.

My favorite all time Spike Dykes quote was at a preseason SWC coaches media day and he was complaining about how players don't work hard enough for his liking--that they were used to things being given to them without effort. He said, "Today, when you talk about manual labor, they think you're taking about a TE from McAllen..."

Well, if they get to still play Power Teams and we in the lower G5s don't, that's still a lot of money to make for the MWC and AAC that the MACUSBC won't be able to get, from road games or gate receipts from the home game they might still get.

I have been an advocate of going to the MWC for a long time, but two things really got confirmed to me about this. 1.) Our fans don't want it---they think its too far away. I believe that is typically short-sighted, but the reality is that what we want, we cannot ever have--a bid into a conference with SMU and other regional rivals higher up the foodchain than the current CUSA teams. 2.) The even bigger point, which really got cemented to me after TCU joined the Big XII, is that the MWC doesn't want us. They want other Texas schools from the Big XII's eventual demise, as well as possibly getting SMU or UH to join. That isn't even counting UTEP or UTSA, two cities with bowls to offer. I do believe that the MWC was a possibility back when TCU was there, but our football team went from Bad Dickey to Terrible Dodge in that same time, totally crushing the advancement of the Johnny Jones-led hoops team's attractiveness to a league. We are basically stuck at this point. The AAC and MWC will continue to be given the opportunities to play the Power Leagues in football in OOC and in bowl games, when the Big XII goes the way of the dodo, but the rest of us in the lower G5 will be left to officially start our own level of play with the top end of FCS schools, probably by 2025, which is when the GOR expires for the Big XII. I see Texas keeping LHN money until that expires in 2031, meaning either a conference lets them keep it until then or they will just go independent in football until then. OU, KU, and WVU will be the next schools taken, then OSU, Tech, and KSU have to hope for some long coattails from big brother. If they get them, they stay in a power league. If they don't, they'll join ISU, TCU, and Baylor on the dropout list, giving the AAC and MWC some nice sloppy seconds to fight over. I imagine seeing the Pac 12 become 16 with UT, Tech, OU, and OSU. I see the B1G getting KU and UConn to go to 16. I see the SEC possibly adding WVU and KSU to get to 16. The ACC probably adds Cincy to get to 16 teams for them, while UConn goes back to the Big East and becomes a football independent like UMass. The MWC then decides to add in TCU and Baylor. If they can get BYU to also come back, that would leave them with one spot remaining, which I believe will be reserved for UTEP. That gets them to 16. The AAC, sitting at 10 teams after UConn and Cincy leave, will add ISU, then try and get Army to join Navy in their league as football only, as well. That gets them to 12. If they want to go to 16, then they set their sights on the MAC and CUSA teams they want to add, like NIU, Ohio, MUTS, and maybe a team like Marshall. And that will be it. The rest of the MAC, CUSA, and SBC, as well as the top FCS schools, probably totaling about 60 schools or so, will be playing at a secondary level, with a playoff to win the national championship like the current FCS does.

Great move by the AAC--gets a very solid hoops program in a decent market, while not disturbing football. I've always wondered why the PAC-12, for example, wouldn't add Gonzaga and St. Mary's to their league. Seems like an easy fix, they would cover the revenue you pay them fairly easily, plus you get more credits for their basketball success.

Who makes up the non-Big 12 that you are referring to? Just curious to see who you are talking about...

That he wasn't fired on the spot for getting into an altercation with Silver is still amazing. He should have been fired for being the OC of an offense with the overall excitement of watching paint dry, not to mention having the personality of Rosie O' Donnell.

Neither has much choice. I guess they could go independent or make it to where those schools weren't in their divisions, but if they would prefer to not exist as a program over not playing with another school they look down on, I'm sure that NMSU and ULM wouldn't mind. Besides, at some point, schools like Sam Houston and SFA will want to move up from FCS. Totally agree...

I think it would be great for us if we can get his thing tighter, from a geographical standpoint. Assuming we cannot move up to the MWC or AAC, which is what I believe is the case because of the Texas ties currently in the AAC and the future availability of Texas schools for the MWC to choose from the inevitable Big XII implosion, this scenario needs to happen ASAP. Schools like UTEP and La Tech cannot look down their noses anymore at NMSU or ULM--they don't have that kind of clout. UTEP, NMSU, UTSA, Texas State, Rice, and UNT in the West La Tech, ULL, ULM, Arkansas State, USM, and UAB in the East Troy, USA, FIU, FAU, Ga State, and Ga Southern in the South Marshall, MUTS, WKU, ODU, Charlotte, and Appy State in the North It all just makes too much sense from a cost standpoint, from a travel standpoint, and from a rivalry/attendance standpoint. Benefits the schools, the players, coaches, staff, and fans.

The AAC doesn't have to merge yet because they have a lot more revenue than the lower G5s--same with the MWC. Plus, both leagues will really stand to do better after the Big XII falls apart and they can add some solid pieces both in Texas and in the Midwest. I figure that will keep them able to continue playing the Power teams in OOC and in bowls. The rest of us will be the next level of play, but will have a chance to win a national championship which we don't now. Of course, people may not care, but it's the decisions we didn't make back in the 80s and 90s that determined our situation. We can still follow and support our alma mater, even if it isn't at the top level of play again. This isn't being I-aa in the SLC at the same time as the SWC and Big Eight being dominant. Very different today than it was back then.

Something like this is a matter of when... I know there are a lot of fans that don't want to associate with the old SBC teams, but it's a natural fit.

Best thing we and the others in the G5 can do is just live stream all games and make the priority be on cost cutting for travel and more regionalized conference opponents. We don't need to be playing Marshall, ODU, Charlotte, F_U, or any other eastern SBCUSA team as a conference opponent. Neither does Utep, UTSA, or La Tech. Until that gets fixed, this lack of TV and other media will just get more problematic. Fans of G5 schools, especially in the MAC, CUSA, and the SBC, need to figure this out soon. It won't get better, it's just gonna get worse.

So we can't seem to ever hire coaches that can recruit here? Or is it just maybe that we hire coaches who realize that they cannot get recruits to listen or consider us as a last FBS resort? I mean, we have been at this level of play now for over 22 years and nothing really changes in our recruiting rankings. Hire different coaches, Get a new conference, go to bowls, move into a new stadium, change the offensive schemes, etc...and nothing ever changes with our recruiting rankings. At some point, you have to at least ponder the question of how our program never makes decent leaps in recruiting, even against other G5s. We broke McCarney down after he had seen three years of significant rebuilding culminate in a 9-win, HoD Bowl victory season provide exactly zero with TX HS recruits and their coaches and parents. The guy went from Uber positive ever where he went about UNT, to being Darrell Dickey 2.0 by the time his 4th season here was in full swing. Maybe Littrell will get better as a recruiter, along with his staff, but he's gotta beat decades of apathy and negativity to fully turn this around to where it was back in the late 70s.