Greendylan

Let's make a deal. If we win the last three regular season games and then win the first two SBC tournament games, then I won't say another word about removing a certain head coach until next season. Would this make up for our failures this year and turn the season into a success? No, not at all. But, it would show that this team has perhaps FINALLY turned the corner, and it would give me at least a modicum of hope for next season. Of course, if this scenario did play out, I would expect more next season. However, we all know that this is implausible. We haven't won back-to-back games since December 16, and we are winless against teams in our own division.

And, we never will "have enough donors to be able to afford buyouts" if we continue to suck at football and basketball year after year, decade after decade (even when the aforementioned donors have given massive amounts of money to help build new facilities just so that we won't continue sucking).

You make an excellent point, and I think this is a critical question: Just how broke are we? Because I don't know the answer to that question, I am not calling for RV's head. He may very well be in a more difficult position than any of us realize. Concerning a buyout, my argument is and always has been that we will lose more money in the long run by NOT committing to an immediate buyout. If we have to borrow money from somewhere else or delay baseball for a year, we do it. I really don't think allowing ourselves to fade into complete irrelevance in a major sport for several years (potentially a decade) is acceptable, and I don't think that any respectable, large university would follow such a path.

THIS season is almost over . . . but then there will be two or three more just like it (or likely much worse) unless RV does something to stop the hemorrhaging. Allowing this program to bottom out--at what was publicly billed as its highest point--for a few years would be effectively presenting a self-imposed death penalty. If, as some of you have indicated, we do not have the ability or will to prevent this disasterous scenario, then we will be broadcasting a very strong message about the feeble condition of our athletic program and the ineptness of its leadership. To regional/national recruits, area high school coaches, members of the media, UNT almuni, potential big donors etc., the situation probably looks something like this: "Wow, even when that school somehow manages to stumble upon top-notch players, they find a way to bungle the hiring of a new coach and still suck. And, they don't seem to care enough to do anything about it." Let's instead show them that we are dedicated to the realistic advancing of our athletic programs...

Quality win! Kudos to coaches, players, and everyone involved. If we manage to get a string of wins together, I will gladly change my attitude.

If it ends up truly only being "one bad season" then you are absolutely right, and I am over-reacting.

I never indicated that students have "stayed away." They are on campus, but we haven't given them much reason to attend our athletic events. The list simply indicates that among our peer institutions, we do not compare favorably regarding major athletics. I suppose we could just say, let's only compare ourselves to those with a similar endowment. However, I tend to think that that line of thinking would keep the bar fairly low and doesn't push us to really reach our potential as a major research institution with division one athletics. Finally, if I had a nickel for every time I heard the old "give it time" argument... I'm not trying to single you out (I do appreciate your optimism), but I think that if this becomes our mantra, we are in trouble.

You're too close!

Ha! Well played...

Oh, and just in case anyone was wondering, the next five on the list of the largest state universities contains the following athletic failures: 31. NC state 32. Colorado 33. San Diego State 34. VCU 35. George Mason

Well, yes, you are correct. I guess I just meant to say that there have been two consecutive four year blocks experiencing nothing but losing football.

Here's a list of the 30 largest state universities (in other words, our peer group): 1. Arizona state 2. Ohio state 3. Central Florida 4. Minnesota 5. Texas 6. Florida 7. Texas a&m 8. Michigan state 9. Washington 10. Penn state 11. Illinois 12. Indiana 13. Michigan 14. Wisconsin 15. Purdue 16. South Florida 17. Florida state 18. Florida international 19. Arizona 20. UCLA 21. Rutgers 22. Maryland 23. Houston 24. Temple 25. Cal state Fullerton 26. California 27. Cal state long beach 28. Cal state north ridge 29. North Texas 30. Georgia How many of the above schools are consistently bad at football, basketball, and baseball? Rivals ranked our football recruiting class at 117. Our men's basketball team has an rpi of 265. Honestly ask yourself this question: are we keeping up with our peers? Also, the idea that athletic success comes at the expense of academics is easily dismissed by this list.

We have had two consecutive classes (8 years) come to UNT, stay their whole undergraduate careers, and then leave without experiencing a single bowl game or even a .500 record in football. I'm not sure our current students realize that winning is even an option at little old North Texas. In the case of many students I bet they heard some hype and went to a couple basketball games early in the year. Then, after recognizing that what their friends have said about UNT is true, they go back to not caring about mean green athletics--and probably will keep wearing those burnt orange shirts for years to come. We need a cultural change, and one way to accomplish that is to show that we will no longer accept abysmal failure from our head coaches. Whether it's fair or not, there is more pressure on basketball because of recent disappointments in football.

Psychologically, I don't think our team has much of a chance against anyone right now.

Nice work! Now . . . I think we all know what we need to do with the next influx of revenue.

One thought that I've had on this issue is that it is doing Benford a disservice to keep him around past this season. If you let him go after a single disastrous season then the situation (from afar) looks as though both parties quickly realized that they weren't a good match for one another and promptly parted ways--each one seeking greener pastures. By contrast, if you REALLY let him drive this bus off the cliff over the course of another season or two, or three, then his reputation will be damaged beyond repair. Despite this season's immense failures, I actually think he could land a high-profile assistant gig for next year. After a few more successful years recruiting and winning as an assistant, who knows? He could even get another shot at being a head coach. However, if he ends up essentially destroying our program for years to come, and if it becomes known that recruits won't go near the guy, then it's possible that he won't ever work for a Division I program again. No one wins by dragging the poor guy through a few more years of humiliation.

We have already been rendered completely irrelevant even in just the Sun Belt West division. I can't imagine the results after two or three more years of this nonsense.

Sigh . . . if this is true, then I suppose we have two or three hopeless seasons to look forward to. Ugh, I guess keeping fingers crossed for a six-win football season next year is about as good as it gets in Mean Green land.

It's disturbing how much the standards have fallen throughout the course of a single season.

We located the donor dollars for the basketball practice facility. Surely we can scrounge up the cash for a buyout, knowing that our inability to do so will assuredly result in the absolute dismantling of a once proud program.

I'm less concerned with blaming a kid who is trying to make a monumental decision and more concerned with the fact that we have been getting obliterated in recruiting for years. We are one of only three sun belt teams with no rivals three star recruits. Even south Alabama has two. The stadium and move to cusa don't seem to be helping one bit.

Very true. I think there are some of us who feel that Mitchell would be absolutely dominating the sun belt if he were to be used in the right way. Also, I expected the coaching staff to actually develop him throughout this season.

The "nice things" are out there. We just don't hire them.

So, last year our bakery used only the finest walnuts. However, that particular brand of walnuts is no longer available. Instead of ordering a five year supply of a different brand of walnuts, our head baker accidentally ordered a five year supply of motor oil. Now that all the regulars of our bakery have been vomiting and vowing never to return, we have realized that motor oil is not now nor will ever be an acceptable substitute for walnuts. Regardless, we are stuck using motor oil for years to come even though we all know it is poisonous. Apparently, we are one of the poorest bakeries in our city and we spent every last cent we could scrounge up on the motor oil. Now the chocolate chip and flour distributors will also likely stop servicing our bakery because they don't want to be associated with the sickness and health code violations resulting from our cookies. I guess we just have to give up on cookies for the next decade or more until we run out of motor oil and the public forgets about how dangerous and disgusting our products have become. To keep our bakery in business, we really need to hope that our bread starts to improve. It hasn't sold well since 2004! That sad part is that prior to the motor oil incident our cookies were often finalists in our annual neighborhood baking contest.

The results on the hardwood last year were just fine. Top 25? Not even close. But were we bottom 50? We are now...with largely the same players.