Eagle1855

Thank GOD!

Well I see we agree on pretty much everything- more than I realized. Solid points, all around. Now, are you sure more flyers wouldnt help?

I dont think C-USA answers all of our problems. Never said it did. I just think playing decent programs helps with attendance. No matter how you manipulate the numbers, it DOES help. UNT will never average 30k until- as I said before- it becomes a "destination" for students, not just a place that's fine because it's "close to home". That's the root of the problem with our fan base. People don't seem to be PROUD to have gone to UNT- at least not many of the older alums, and maybe that's a carryover from the 1AA days. I've said on here before I DO think that culture is changing, but it is a slow process. We probably wont see the fruits of that for several years. I also think it helps for people to see and believe that the university is actually COMMITTED to having a legit athletics program- which Im 50/50 on whether or not that's actually the case right now. In the interim, playing notable teams would certainly help. Playing schools that people say "aren't they a D-2 school?" about isn't good for grabbing the casual sports fan and getting them to set aside an evening to go up to Denton for a game. Winning games would help the most- I don't disagree with that opinion. I've echoed the same sentiment dozens of times on this very board. Truthfully, it isnt just one thing that makes for a respectable athletics program that garners the support of the fans, alums, students, and surrounding communities. They are all interrelated. If you disagree with my opinions, fine. Just tell me why. Tell us all HOW you can build a fan base. I don't claim to have all the answers, I've just lived in a few different places, closely watched a couple of college teams, and have a lot of big time sports fan friends that went to a lot of the "major" programs. My experience (and therefore opinion) is limited to that.

The argument is the same either way, just a differing perspective. Feel free to ask any orangebloods you know (I know plenty) and they will all tell you they would have zero interest in paying $50+ per game to play the likes of ULL, ULM, FIU, etc all season. I also completely disagree that the crowds would be 2/3 our opponents if we were in the Big 12. We arent Baylor. Our alumni base isnt scattered, it's very much localized. we have 3 times the student body. I never said we don't have work to do in our own house and I never insinuated CUSA was the answer to all of our problems. I don't believe that to be true. I also believe that we should aspire to win every single game we play no matter the conference. We clearly haven't yet done that. You can argue with me all you want, but the fact of the matter is that the types of opponents you play DOES matter to the general fan base. It does matter to the casual fan (the guy or gal that isnt sitting on this board every day typing away just to read themselves in print) and the person that isnt generally interested in sports. I have a good friend that made the SMU game just because it was a local rival. He hates football and most team sports, but he came because of who we played. Nobody cares about my friend, but my point is that I highly doubt he's the only one. And I still don't understand why ArkStFan keeps talking about Rice. We're nothing like Rice. We haven't any aspirations to BE like Rice. If you're going to compare us to former SWC schools, talk about Houston. They are basically the same school (except they actually have a law school) 280 miles south with the same problems (pro sports, mid major conference, commuter image) as UNT. And you know what? After the SWC, they couldn't get a bunch of people to their games until they started winning in a conference that had a lot of regional rivalries.

Ha, nicely done. You know we don't want to think TOO big just yet. It's perfect!

Yeah, just one more example of how we're a better conference than... errrrr oops. Not quite yet... There are too many bowls. C-USA has too many as-is. Teams should have to be at least 7-5 to go bowling, in my opinion. This has been discussed ad-naseum, but hey, it's the off-season- lets beat the high horse. Wait, it's gotta be your bull...

If you dropped Texas into the Sun Belt today, their attendance would wither and die within 2 seasons. My point is merely to say that there are several components to having a decent-sized crowd. Playing a relevant opponent is just one of them. Playing for something is another. Make no mistake, UNT has it's fair share of problems with school pride, but that won't change until it becomes a "destination" rather than a "fall-back plan".

What, no mention of OU's attendance? What about USC? Michigan? Ohio State? While we're at it, lets compare our middle-of-the-road mid-major programs to ALL the elite programs. A better comparison would have been Mississippi State. Or Baylor. Or Ok State. Schools that are never playing for much more than a bowl bid or an upset. Their fans show up to see their program take on a RESPECTABLE opponent. You can't tell me you wouldn't pay more for a ticket to see Arkansas State take on Arkansas in your own backyard than the juggernaut that is ULM. Your logic is also flawed if you think that we expect to ride visitor attendance to a respectable attendance average- we don't. We'd just like to play teams that matter both in the grand scheme of Div 1A college football and regionally. Nobody wants to come watch their team play teams with losing records every year. Im guessing you didn't attend the Baylor or the Navy game- or even the Tulsa or SMU games. I wouldn't expect you to, but I did. A lot of UNT fans that never go to games came out the woodwork to see us play a RELEVANT opponent. And let's not talk about UT. UT used to have attendance problems before they started winning 10 games every season- and were therefore playing for something every year, as FFR alluded. Winning builds interest. IF you don't win any games, you at least want to play some teams that are intriguing. Not doing either almost always results in poor attendance. In fact, I doubt you can think of an example of a team that isnt in a BCS conference that can maintain high levels of attendance without winning.

If not MTSU, then who would be the big 3? Clearly WKU, USA... but I cant in good conscience put UNT in there. MTSU played the toughest sched, knocked out USA in the conf tourney.

great points, unfortunately that still wont help our attendance. Tulsa will still be our biggest home game. Our fans still don't care about the teams in the Sun Belt... But yes, the Sun Belt is improving.

I think you mean Godzirra...

no, but you should know how to speak "gay"

not sure why I have to do that. My post was merely saying, UNT should focus on getting surrounding communities and the 100k person town in which the university is located involved before worrying about St Pattys parades on Greenville Avenue. And just so we're clear, Im not saying the two are mutually exclusive, rather it is the UNT-Dallas exes should be on that.

Well then maybe the exes chapter in Dallas should have been involved, but UNT is 40 miles away, their efforst should first be focused on their surrounding community, Denton and other area towns. And from reading other threads, sounds like there's still plenty of work to do up there.

thats great! My point is simply, I doubt A&M had anything to do with that group assembling and representing their school. It was probably their own initiative. They don't need the school to set up an event to show school pride.

well generally speaking, most Aggies are super-proud of where they went to school. Feel free to read between the lines.

well we had a lot of questions too, this time last year. We knew we were bringing in some quality freshmen, but the rest remained largely unknown.

Oh Im agree, great shirts and hats are a must, but there's an underlying reason why people dont flock in droves to buy the stuff- and it doesnt have anything to do with branding or marketing. That's the point.

Im not sure how a sarcastic response about the relative (in)effectiveness of grassroots marketing on a Div 1 program lead you to believe I thought UNT sucks. As far as I know NCTC doesn't field a football team, so I doubt very seriously we'd ever be in their league. Though we are a hell of a bargain, as far as tuition is concerned...

no no no no no, its a marketing problem. More flyers = better attendance. Green walls = more merch sales. Hellooooo

yeah just follow 59 north from Rice. Once you pass downtown, you can take the Waco St exit- it will drop you off right at the entrance. I did it by accident once- definitely worth the DAYTIME drive-thru (not to be mistaken with the nighttime drive-by). Or you could just go a little east of the med center to the 3rd ward, which backs up to U of H and TSU. Though considered an "up-and-coming" area, it's still plenty ghetto for your voyeuristic pleasure. Also, check out Discovery Green. Set to open April 13th, it's going to be a great place to hang out, right in downtown. By the time the game comes along, several other developments in the area will be also finished, making it a pretty decent area to walk around- with or without the company of children. As game time nears, I'll be happy to make some restaurant and bar suggestions. Like Dallas, there is no shortage of places to grab good food or throw down a few-to-several drinks.

true, but I was referring to a day when UNT gear is all over the metroplex, not just at select drugstores. Houston has Rice and UH stuff everywhere. Dont see why DFW and UNT would be any different. But, it's a dead horse... sigh...

I dream of a day when we don't have to post these kinds of threads.

I had the same final, but I didn't have Michigan State in there... what have you seen in them that makes you think they are primed for an upset?

Any semblance of defense alone would have put us at 5-7. I look for us to easily be the most-improved. And let me add that if we don't find a decent kicking and punting game, we're never going to get over the .500 hump. Not getting 3 on the board and having short punts killed us in the field position game.