CaribbeanGreen

Why? It didn't happen at Middle Tennessee. It didn't happen at FIU. It didn't happen at SMU. It didn't happen at Kansas St. I'll bet you a paycheck it won't happen at Western Kentucky. It doesn't happen anywhere but at old UNT. No one else gets this kind of learning curve and this much rope. Nowhere else does a "four year plan" exist that requires every acceptable result to occur in the mythical fourth year turnaround. If you think Todd Dodge is even an AVERAGE recruiter and you look around the country even one bit, why on EARTH do you think a new coach guarantees "blowing it up" for three more years this bad?

Really?

At this point, with this record, after that game - if this - or ANY CFB fan message board - wasn't loaded with negativity I'd have SERIOUS concerns. ...and I'd immediately look for my cult robes or Cubs hat.

who cares? No one has hired Gary Patterson or Chris Peterson away either. As far as I know, Patterson only ever had one serious overture (Minn) and so did DD (Idaho). Fact is, low-personality and run-based coaches not known for exciting offenses are at a handicap. This much has been say by and about Patterson in recent weeks. Regardless, I could care less who did or didn't try to hire him away. I will never understand the belitting of the accomplishments of people like Brandon Kennedy, Kevin Galbreath, Scott Hall, Brad Kassell, Johnny Quinn, Patrick Cobbs, Jonas Buckles, Cody Spencer, Andrew Smith, Jamario Thomas, and SO many other of the best players in NT history. We witnessed arguably the greatest run this school has ever or will ever have - -4 straight conference championships -Back to Back National Rushing Champions -New Orleans Bowl Championship -Longest conference win streak in the nation -Wins over Big XII opponents at home and on the road -Top 20 ranked national defense Cerebus is right - we probably will never witness a run like that again. We surely never have before.... oh, and guess what? NEITHER WILL/HAVE 95% OF SCHOOLS IN THE COUNTRY. Do you have any concept of how RARE and IMPOSSIBLE that run was? Littered with names of NT hall of famers, some of the greatest players to walk our campus. You can choose to find ways to tear it down all you want, but I didn't see any other schools doing it. When you put that kind of success in perspective with our overall DISMAL football history here, it becomes almost literally IMPOSSIBLE. The stuff movies are made of. Imagine how a student at NT now feels, having gone to all the games for his or her time here. You think they can even IMAGINE that level of success? Think they wouldn't mortgage their fandom for it? Also, any talk of "oh, the conference was weaker!" b.s. - the numbers bear out that that's not as big of a difference, but I wouldn't care if it was - no one else in the conference was close to doing it. These are the same teams that use us as practice now. And the biggest thing??? When this team was recruited, when this team dominated - there was no athletic center. No fancy treatment rooms. No athlete dorms. No prospect of a new stadium. No tailgating, no game day atmosphere of ANY kind. No long term plan from the AD. Locker rooms with leaks, tiny, dank weight rooms with lousy equipment, and days the power couldn't even be counted to stay on. So yeah, I didn't mind DD's "misfits and castoffs against the world" strategy. I understand how it grated on some, but that team had an IDENTITY. It damn sure didn't get blown out in conference, and even if DD's "yeah, damn right we're running right at you all day" strategy made some crazy, we didn't count on coaching meltdowns and errors every week. On every level, what that thing accomplished is incredible. Those players were the best I've had the pleasure to watch at NT. I'm not saying DD deserved a lifetime contract or there weren't problems - surely there were. But I have just about HAD IT with the bizarre need for some here to belittle the only success this thing has so much as sniffed in three decades, when it was some damn fine success I will never forget being fortunate enough to be a part of. Nothing would make me happier than if TD could recreate 1/4th of DD's success here. I think we'd all be happy with that.

"close losses" got the last guy here (and hundreds of guys around the country) canned. And most of those guys (if not all) had won a heck of a lot more at some point. Here, it's all talk of potential for a coach that is the worst in-game tactician I've ever seen, and whose HS record outside of the factory-win 10 every year machine at SLC is .500.

better hope he lands at another wealthy one-high school district that wins all the time... because other than that, he's a .500 high school coach. (Yoe, Smith, etc.)

would agree if not for the fact he had the waterworks going after FIU as well. He's like a little girl's doll with a pull string after games lately.

How many times did you see Outlaw or Carey with at least 3-4 steps on a DB only for Riley to float up a rainbow that caused nearly an all-out stop? It happens so frequently, it's not just a fluke or misthrown ball. It's who he is right now.

Four. Carey had the fifth.

Great! If we had Joe Montana and Jerry Rice, they wouldn't matter either! Point is, you CAN win with 5 TOs. Today should have proven that in a big way.

Yes you can. If we pick up a 3rd and 1 inside the 20, we win. If we make kicks, we win. If we use our time outs wisely, we have a chance to win. If we choose to catch a punt, we at least have a prayer to win. Saying you can't win with TOs is saying we shouldn't have won today. No one who watched that thing thinks the better team won. Even Army probably doesn't think that. One yard, we win. A treasure trove of laughable coaching decisions cost us a lot more than one yard.

AGAIN??

This. Mind you, it took two consecutive time outs to come to this lousy decision. Those sure might have come in handy later, eh Vic? And seriously, how can you not walk into any random freshman PoliSci class in Wooten Hall and not find someone capable of making PATs at a higher clip than Knott?

Every play. And no, they didn't. He had FIVE carries in the first half, for 21 yards. FIVE carries, for a guy who has made going over 200 yards in a game commonplace. No, you just let your turnover machine QB throw dismal deep ball after dismal deep ball and fumble it all over the place. You want to say it was just one huge run? Fine - Take away the 68 yard TD. HE STILL AVERAGED BETTER THAN 4.5 PER CARRY!!! That is not "shut down" by ANY definition, especially when you need one yard to put the game away and he's been ripping off five yard chunks all the way down the field. Besides, even if he'd been getting 2.5 pc, Dunbar is the kind of player you stick with. You keep pounding him. He's tough and explosive as hell. That was a weak call and horrible use of talent on every level.

No way. This is on coaching every step of the way. Dunbar with 13 carries at 10 yards a pop? Running Riley to ice it on 3rd and short? Delay of games out of TOs? Back to back TOs in the midst of a keystone kops routine leading to an eventual bad decision anyway? Bush league.

Worst in-game coaching I have seen at the collegiate level in my entire life. Period. Lance Dunbar being essentially ignored - he averaged 10 yds per carry on 13 attempts. on 3rd and 1, with a chance to essentially ice the game, all the momentum, and Dunbar literally unstoppable -- you run a meek little sweep for Riley, who goes down easily in the backfield and almost fumbles the thing yet again. Dunbar was a decoy. Immediately after this, you take a TO to debate your next move - makes sense, because you've been unable to recruit even a below adequate kicker in three years - and apparently decide to go for it. You send the offense back out, your QB - and son - begin SCREAMING at you, arms flailing, because they have no clue what to do. YOU CALL ANOTHER TIME OUT. Army players are looking at each other like they can't believe what's happening. Then, you send out the worst kicker in football, who does exactly what's expected and gets the kick blocked (after just missing yet another PAT). Earlier in the game, mind you, you got a delay of game penalty COMING OUT OF A TIME OUT. This was the most inept use of three time outs in the history of organized sport. Then, to compound things, Army is forced to punt w/ 12 seconds to go. Time to rush it, or at least run one more play from decent field position. YOU DON'T BOTHER CATCHING THE PUNT. Army players again look at each other and begin laughing incredulously as the sit around and watch the ball wobble to a stop while the game clock expires. I've often thought we overrated the talent on this team, but today, I saw things differently. We were better than Army at almost every position, and literally seemed to TRY to give the thing away. Our coach IS Vic Trilli. Period. We talk about wanting to turn things around, learning curves, etc. - but what Pop Warner coach makes the mistakes that Football Trilli made today? Who can defend the fact that HE CAN'T COACH?!? Have you EVER felt we outcoached somebody? Do you really think there's ANY chance of that happening? Do you not sense the impending doom of seemingly GIVING games away?

I'm shooting something else entirely to work out some frustration.

That happens to me a lot on the internets. Like earlier in this thread, when I trust you know CBL and I were volleying Ticket drops and not legitimately calling you out for dirty Greek arrogance.

http://www.latfh.com/ You're welcome.

Is that what we're calling it these days?

I'm from Greece, I have an uncle in Crete, I've been surrounded by arm-hairy women for the past 20 years, and I have HD in my white hillside dwelling.

Braggart.

also known as "the inevitable peak of FIU's season"

TheColonyEagle has a point, and it's exactly what I first thought as well... just stop running King & Queen as a couple, hold individual elections like every other school I'm aware of, and done. In fact, not realizing how big this thing would get and having some time to kill on campus, I made this suggestion two weeks ago on the NT Daily website in response to the editorial board endorsing voting "YES". However, that was not a suitable solution for those who disagreed with the SGA's initial decision. For perspective, here are some reader comments from the Daily's website on why the split vote wasn't acceptable: Jake R. says: November 18, 2009 at 3:10 pm Because to those who it really affects and opens doors for, deciding to revert back to individuals running for homecoming court is the same as saying, “Now that it’s a big issue, I’m uncomfortable with handing out equal opportunity for all so we’re going to SWEEP this under the rug, IGNORE the civil liberties issue altogether, and HALT this particular kind of advancement for LGBT people at UNT.” Homecoming is such a simple thing. If equal opportunity can’t be given on that stage, I wonder where my equal opportunity will be forbidden next at this university. Why should I not want equal opportunity at any and every level? If LGBT people and our friends cease asking and/or demanding our equality at the smallest levels, we might as well start giving away what little rights the majority of Americans have ‘blessed’ us with because those rights are small too. Long before homecoming courts were a tradition, it was an American tradition to spred the equality, equal rights and protections, and equal opportunity to the next Americans who were denied and LGBT people should take equality like a flag of a nation that is rightfully ours too. Luke says: November 3, 2009 at 6:40 pm Splitting the couple vote fixes nothing. Gay copules should be able to run because as a school we shouldn’t be saying gay couples cannot represent UNT. The idea that a man and a woman are the only or better choice for a family is demonstrably false as well as offensive Luke says: November 3, 2009 at 6:54 pm Also, the idea that gays are represented by running as a heterosexual pairing is blatantly false. We need to allow gays to run as same sex pairs so that we are not continually stating that heterosexual pairs are superior. Luke says: November 3, 2009 at 7:18 pm CG, a split run still sends the mesage that heterosexual couples are the only couples that represent UNT because it is a heterosexual pairing. So a agy man and gay woman winning still sends the message that it takes a man and a woman to be a couple that represents UNT. This is exclusionary and false. Letting same sex couples run is the only non exclusionary choice. People fighting for gay rights aren’t trying to win a game. They are trying to get rights that gays already are entitled to David S says: November 3, 2009 at 8:59 pm The number of articles on this issue should be indicative of how strongly people feel about this, and hashing things out is anything but an “epic timewaste”. In fact, I think it’s obscene to call it an epic timewaste considering that this is taking place within the context of a society which inflicts institutionalized oppression against queer people. As I said in another thread CG, your “split vote” compromise changes absolutely nothing. The argument that your proposed gender binary is the only way to properly represent the student population at UNT does not reflect reality. Folks who do not fit neatly into these categories simply want the opportunity to represent alternative forms of human expression. And as long as forces exist which seek to actively suppress these alternative forms of human expression, there will be conflict. Keep in mind that the very notion of queer identity wouldn’t exist had it not been at least in part for the collective realization of a group of folks with a common interest that they’re all being screwed over for the same reason. Please understand, I don't consider myself to be anti-gay. And though I disagree with this whole thing, I realize that I can't possibly appreciate the perspective that has led certain people to feel the way they do. My distaste for the whole thing is simply the making of an issue for the sake of making an issue. There is no actual "progress" to be gleaned from such an insignificant, trivial thing, and I feel the whole thing is a waste of time, energy, and advantageous timing. Protesting for gay marriage - I get that. Protesting for partner's benefits - absolutely. But this, IMHO, is missing the point, and was compounded by an impotent SGA and scared or oblivious administration... because no matter how silly you think it all is, it's the biggest story about our university in a while, and it sticks to the name and the degree - at least for a little while. Do I think it hurts recruiting?? HA. We could have an all male sailor-themed baby oil party in the Union every Friday night and it wouldn't hurt recruiting more than Football Trilli has. I am, however, concerned about the potential impact on older alums and certain potential donors... I think it's a foolish time to take an insignificant moral stand that risks alienating some important people, especially given UNT's position. On the other hand, it could be exciting that a couple of kick-ass frat dudes could now run together for the hell of it. Or a pair of smokin' hot chicks, fresh from the sorority house pillow fight.

Nice, hard fought win. Just for some perspective, what's the outlook on UTA this year? What exactly did we beat out there tonight?