CaribbeanGreen

4 conference titles in 5 years, and pretty much across-the-board recognized WIDESPREAD improvement in the program as a whole (see the poll, LongJim's post, etc.). I honestly don't think this is even DEBATABLE, is it?!? Did I miss something in the Big West years??? Do you really believe what you are saying, that the DD era is unacceptable? I mean, I understand if people think that we need to go another direction to get to that "next level" -- may not agree just yet, but understand -- but do you really think that what was accomplished here over DD's tenure was unacceptable??? Say what you want about our conference -- but it is our conference, and I still don't see one reason we should be placed on some pedestal above our conference mates -- but there is not ONE program ANYWHERE on ANY level in ANY conference that would deem FOUR CHAMPIONSHIPS IN FIVE YEARS unacceptable. Period. End of story. End of debate. If you want to say that DD isn't the future of this program and you want a change for the future, that's your opinion and i'm sure you can argue that. But I have to believe the crazy "DD's career is unacceptable" is just passionate knee-jerk -- and hey, if so, that's great - that kind of passion just means you care.

Based on the poll on the other thread, that is a belief shared by an EXTREME minority, on this board at least.

I want your accountant.

Do you really think we are on par talent wise with: Alabama, Texas Tech, Kansas, TCU, Colorado State, Arizona, Southern Miss? Not flaming by any means, legitimately asking. I think you know a lot more about the ins and outs of this team than I do -- just asking based on a pretty confident view that nationally we'd be viewed as at a severe talent disadvantage against any of these schools -- hell, we were viewed by everyone outside of Denton as having a severe talent deficiency to SMU.

Freaking GENIUS. Best post of this whole post-OOC mini meltdown.

So you're saying the last conference championship season/NO Bowl you were denouncing the coaching staff's incompetence?? I'm not doubting this, because you said it right there, but I'm just wondering if maybe you overstated a bit.

Okay, who is drunk at 11:30am and voted for heavy regression?? I mean, seriously.

fish in a barrel, my friend....

I wouldn't agree with Cowboy fans, because with pro teams, the commited win or lose kind of fan is the exception and not the rule. Believe me, the Cowboys are no different than the Dolphins (where i live here in SoFla).. Speaking of that, you could NOT be more right on about UM. Anyway, as for your last comment, that kind of logic is lost on a few members of this board. Believe me, I tried. Apparently we should not be compared against members of our own conference, as we are somehow far superior to them and any victory over them is meaningless. I know, I had it all wrong too. Its not worth banging your head against the wall. Sports is a simple diversion that should be enjoyable - how certain folks here get any enjoyment out of the Hunt for Negativity, I just don't know. Find any other school in the NATION with 4 out of 5 five years with conference championships who then refer to that time period as "wasted years", a "huge step back", and call all of those satisfied with the progress out for having "pathetic expectations".... But don't worry - it's a very vocal minority.

Still waiting on: a) any sense of relevance to the Sagarin. Sagarin has the following rankings: Texas Tech at #11, Auburn at #21, Tulsa at #44 and Tennessee at #47. I rest my case. The Sagarins are basically good for a laugh. Oh yeah, and FIU, who has almost won each game its played against big time opposition, is behind Brown, Cal Poly-SLO, Nicholls State, etc. etc.... giggle. Troy, who apparently has gained so much respect from, um, beating Mizzou, is right there with FIU. any concrete language as to what our expectations should be, since we were all apparently foolish to enjoy that run of 4 straight titles and bowl games... Shoot, here I was having the time of my life and all along I should have been embarassed at my low expectations and a little ashamed of beating such pathetic opposition.... c) reasoning that we shouldn't be compared against our conference mates, but instead against.... what exactly? What makes us so special and them so worthless? d) Your honest wishes for the rest of the season... if, like many others on this board, you stand by your statement that every SBC win is worthless and gets us nowhere, and we have already, by your estimation, failed in OOC and need a regime change, logic would dictate you and your ilk will be rooting against NT the rest of the season to facilitate change. Is this fair? PMG has already said he will not attend any games or support the AD in any way to show his displeasure and promote change. Is this viewpoint one that you share? Not saying it is necessarily invalid, just asking. Can you root for NT to win a game, that, by your logic, is worthless and simply aids to extend this regime?

Enlighten us, then. If 4 out of 5 conference championships and a win over the one OOC school we've all been begging to play for 10+ years is worthless and make us a joke and we were all wrong to enjoy all those championship seasons and bowl games so much, and it's all just a product of delusional fans with low expectations enjoying the most consistent run of d-1 success in our school's history, then you tell us -- what should NT's realistic expectations be? Seriously, outline it for us, educate us. What is acceptable for us to be happy with our school?

So you're saying Vegas was wrong making us huge dogs to Tulsa and Akron then? Sagarin-whatever ratings in the preseason have very little consequence with the overall health of the athetic department. Also, what makes you think "we should have" won 4 straight SBC titles? Our 2/3 wins every year in the Big West?

And I offer again -- in our peer group, the SunBelt... name one school that wouldn't swap football performance with us in the last 5 years in a freaking HEARTBEAT.

Really? across the board? You're saying we have had better facilities and athletes in here routinely than Tulsa and Akron? You're saying we should have won those games, that we're on the same level athletically? Tulsa, a perennial bball power, CUSA member (where we're trying to go), and a football team that's really turned the corner the past few years... and Akron, who is the defending MAC champion, sent their last QB to be a NFL starter, beat NC State on the road, and played Penn State tough in Happy Valley? NO ONE with half a brain in their skull would have picked us to win either of these games. NO ONE. Look at the lines. It's called realism, folks. End of story. You are who you are -- to the less than lucid, this has ZERO bearing on not wanting to progress and not wanting great things for the university -- but we are who we are, and we need to understand that and be happy when we make strides. This doesn't all happen overnight? So all of you naysayers can honestly walk around campus and ignore the BEYOND dramatic improvement in our athletic facilities in the last 5 or 6 years? You can honestly dispute we have a worse conference affiliation than we did in our last conference 5 or 6 years ago?? You can honestly say we haven't come light years further than other universities in that time span?? When I got to NT in 98, the atmosphere was totally different than it is today. No game day atmosphere, half the facilities, no regional rivalries, NO semblance of winning. Did beating Texas Tech a couple times and sucking all over the Big West do a DAMN thing for us nationally? 500 NTSU's later says the obvious answer is no... and that's a load bigger than any Akron or Tulsa win. We all got so spolied with constant SBC titles and NO Bowl trips that now we can't see the forest for the trees. It means a hell of a lot more than beating La Tech. Time, I believe, has proven that. If you had told me, in 2000, that 6 years later we'd have 4 conference championships in 5 years, Fouts would look like it does , the campus would look like it does, and game day would be like it is, I'd have called you the biggest nutjob I'd ever met. If you then told me we'd have fans "writing off the team for good" and demanding firings, I'd keel over laughing. Or crying. Not sure which one.

Agreed. We are what we are - some people don't get that. Look at our facilities - look at our history - look at the performance in other sports. We have an AD dedicated to making a positive change, and a football program that, on its level and in its conference has been the most wildly successful thing we've got. We had one bad year - and I don't think any of us can admit we haven't seen marked improvement from that. We underrate Akron and Tulsa and even SMU (how does Arkie State feel tonight?).. Akron went into Raleigh and beat NC State - who beat #20 BC tonight on the same field. We played Akron a helluva lot tougher than we would have last year, and no one can say there's any reason we shouldn't be one of the favorites in the Belt this year. Sure, we'd all like to win every game. We'd all like to be Texas or TAMU or even UH... but we're NOT. We're trying to get there, but we're a Sun Belt school on a Sun Belt budget with 1-AA facilities doing the GD best we can... those kids are busting their asses out there, and sometimes you just get beat. They carry the banner of MY school, of MY university, the place that I love and left some of the best memories of my life - and like it or not, they carry our banner, Darrell Dickey and Rick Villareal carry our banner, and we call the Sun Belt home. Every single school in our conference would trade places with our football team over the last five years in a SECOND. EVERY ONE OF THEM. And we sit here and bitch and moan about how terrible it is, how much we suck and our coaches just don't really want to win... it's disgusting. Many posters seem to be more excited to spew their venom after a loss than share their joy after a win. Sure, we're all frustrated when we lose. But we've had a damn good run and we're heading in that direction again -- in OUR conference, for OUR school. Let's build the SBC up instead of wasting time trashing it. Let's appreciate the fact that we have a string of titles any school in our conference would kill for. Let's stay the course and put faith in this current athletic administration, the same one which has COMPLETELY changed the culture, atmosphere, and facilities beyond recognition since I arrived on campus in the Big West days. Don't put the cart before the horse. We all want the best for our university. We're all proud to be Green, even if many of us don't act like it after a loss. But we need to gain some perspective on where we are right now and what defines a success. From where I stand, we've been doing pretty damn good and I'm more than proud to be Green. Beat MTSU!

Please explain.

So why even follow a team in this "sad state of affairs" conference. This is part of the problem, not the solution. Were you so embarassed this conference "actually had a bowl game" when NT was going to it every year and we were all enjoying the greatest level of consistent success in the school's history?

Yawn.

Yeah? So you're saying we run the table, win the SBC, and lose in a bowl game - and you would consider that failure? I mean, you've said (on about 10 threads) how much "the team sucks", so I'm wondering what would make you get some pleasure out of this?

55-9 Ponies, late 4th. Tail kicking of the highest order.

By this logic, Mike Leach really is the worst offensive coach in the country. Coaches say stuff like this every week. I agree with the initial poster. You are who you are - and losing to the defending CUSA, MAC, and NCAA champions is what anyone short of a delusional person would have bet on with a gun to their head. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'll be ecstatic with 8 wins and a SBC title. Also, I think the SMU win is going to end up being a helluva lot more impressive than we thought - ask Arkie St... We lose 2 or 3 conference games, and yeah, I consider going out on the bridge with the rest of you... until then, I see some positives in all this, and though I feel like I'm in a minority on this board in saying this, winning the Sun Belt and going to New Orleans is a successful year in my book. I feel like this team has the horses to do that - I'd say the most impressive teams in Non-Con have been Troy (hanging with FSU before getting blown out by Nebraska) and FIU (who loses each week to a good team by 5 or less).. and FIU already has a conference lost to Middle. Let's play this out, and make our summations after the we clinch or play ourselves out of a SBC title.

Oh, we have our warts here too.....

If it DOES come to this, I'm guessing Oklahoma would get the title for the one year that SC won the BCS... despite all the back-to-back business, they only won one BCS title, and that was the thrashing of OU at the Orange Bowl. If they are stripped, it would be like the forfeited that game, so OU would be the champ. More than likely, though, nothing happens or the title is declared vacant.

Missed that - point taken. I'd agree, it's more relevant in HS. Of course, Plano probably has one or fewer titles total if not for the absurd big school/small school b.s., but I digress. Bitterness from mid to late 90's, blowing them out most years and watching them win "state"... I think what has really hurt them was the addition of Plano West, which essentially carved their student base in half... I agree with what you're saying for the most part. In fact, just last night i was talking with a friend of mine, and an interesting hypothetical came up. Can you imagine if a school like Carter, Kimball, or SOC had the from-the-cradle infrastructure, budget, and staff that a SLC or Highland Park does? What effect do you think that would have??

sigh. Why do I fear this just vanishes and we hear nothing more of it until in slips away into the ether of our distant memories... ... I hope I'm wrong, Myles Brand.