TheTastyGreek

If all you respect is NCAA tournament wins, then there's nothing to talk about. I don't think that's a valid way to evaluate a program playing in a conference as low in the pecking order as ours is. And, obviously, we don't have any yet. If you're claiming to be realistic, be realistic about where we are as a program relative to the schools you seem to want to see us competing on a level against. And look at where those same programs were when they were at our stage of development under JJ. It's a little unfair to diminish our development over playing openers, holiday games, and schedule fillers against no-names and non-D1s while pointing at schools like Gonzaga beating ranked teams. Gonzaga under Dan Fitzgerald feasted on a steady diet of Western Montana, Eastern Oregon, Whitman, Warner Pacific, Western Pacific, St. Martin's, Carroll, Idaho State, Whitworth, Lewis-Clark State, Central Washington, Montana Tech, Alaska-Pacific... AND Houston Baptist, SWAC schools, UT-Arlington, Sam Houston State, and others you're specifically pointing at as meaningless wins. Gonzaga under their Johnny Jones played THE SAME SCHOOLS. Or worse! Then Monson comes in, and he steps up their scheduling. Whitman, St. Martin's, Eastern Washington, Concordia, Chicago State, UALR, South Alabama, and UT-Pan American. 2 years later, Monson is gone and Mark Few takes over. He knocks the cream puffs off the schedule entirely. Few only plays powerhouses like UT-Pan Am, Eastern Washington, Montana, Monmouth, Northwest College, Prairie View, Eastern Oregon, Arkansas Pine-Bluff... By Few's 4th year, Gonzaga had been to 4 straight tournaments, including an Elite Eight and 2 other Sweet Sixteens. And he was still padding the schedule with Eastern Washington and a Hofstra team fresh off a 20 loss season. When Steve Fisher took over at San Diego State, they filled out their schedule with games against Riverside, High Point, Florida Atlantic, A&M-Corpus Christi, Norfolk State, Indiana-Purdue Fort Wayne (not to be mistaken for relative powerhouse IUPUI), Troy, Monmouth, Point Loma Nazzarene, Maryland-Baltimore County, Seattle-Pacific, Campbell, and, obviously, Eastern Washington. Ten years into his tenure, they were still scheduling games against Pomona-Pitzer. Utah State under Stew Morrill? Simon Frasier, Whitworth, Western State, Montana Tech, Colorado-Colorado Springs, Idaho State, Riverside, Centenary, Whitman, Hawaii-Hilo, Arkansas State, Fort Lewis College, Indiana-Purdue Fort Wayne, Lewis & Clark College, UALR, Middle Tennessee, Montana-Western, Southern Utah, and some SWAC fun. This year? Non conference games against Western Oregon, A&M-Corpus, Utah Valley, and Idaho State. All those programs were built the same way JJ was building us. And nobody thinks Gonzaga sucks because they pulled themselves up by racking up a few wins a year against SWAC schools, no-names, and sub-D1s. That was what they did to get themselves to where they are today. The difference between JJ and Dan Fitzgerald is that Johnny could win conference tournaments. Every year, every major class of recruits, we were inching and clawing our way up. What we did is HARD TO DO, and very rare. What we did here could have been the foundation for a real, sustained basketball program. Something on par with those other schools who you seem to be comparing us to in minimizing what we did accomplish. Wins over ranked teams... I mentioned 5 teams by name. Between us making the tournament in 2007 and JJ leaving after 2012, can you guess how many road wins (the only type of games we've had the opportunity to play) they had against ranked teams? Gonzaga had one in 2008-09 in overtime against #25 Tennessee. Memphis won one in 2009... At Gonzaga. Utah State won one in 2011 against #23 St. Mary's. BYU won one in 2011... At San Diego State. San Diego State won one in 2011 at #23 Arizona, another at Gonzaga in 2010. If you take away the games they played against each other, those five programs combined for a grand total of three road wins against top 25 teams in five years: against Arizona, Tennessee, and St. Mary's. None ranked higher than 23rd. Our games against ranked teams over that period? Versus #6 Kansas, #18 Texas A&M, and #5 Texas. Here's what I know: In almost 100 years, we never had a run like what we did here for 6 years in a row. In almost 100 years, we had one NCAA tournament appearance. JJ got us two, and tantalizingly close to two others. JJ was recreating the road map for a long-term strong basketball program. And he was doing it in a conference that (other than WKU, occasionally USA, and ULL when they have the resources to cheat) treats basketball like a freaking joke. Not the Mountain West, or the WAC of the late 90's, or the WCC where everyone pours all their resources into basketball. The fact that he didn't get us 15 years down that path in 10 years isn't a valid criticism, in my opinion.

Officially, Benford, Lundy, Evans, Anwar, and Luster make 5. Hopkins, assuming he's not busy with study hall, makes 6. There are 2 other guys who popped up last year who I've never seen before. No idea if they're not-coaching, trainers, or consultants. I hope they were not-coaches like Hopkins and not miscellaneous staff, because one of them seemed to have a lot to say during huddles and timeouts.

You win the thread.

We've always been big on raising better hunters and foragers at North Texas.

Fixed.

I believe that the coaches and not-coaches now outnumber the players. Tough to say for sure... There were a lot of new faces who officially do who-knows-what. But, at minimum, it's a tie.

Only? Optimist.

I'm still proud that we had a streak of 20+ win season only exceeded by half a dozen non-BCS programs. Very proud. We won two tournaments, came within 5 and 60 seconds of winning two others, and won a regular season title. And we won consistently at a high level, surpassed in duration only by schools like Memphis, Gonzaga, Utah State, BYU, and San Diego State. Not bad for a 6 year run. You can keep trying to shit on it if you want, but we did something pretty exceptional for a good run of time. I wish it had been more, but that doesn't mean I'm not proud of what it was. Especially building it from almost zero history of success... If we won 8 games 6 years in a row and won two bowl games, I'd say that's a pretty big deal, too. And I don't think that's anywhere near what we did from 2007-2012 in basketball.

Most of them were already a lot more successful than we were then, too. Wichita State made the Final Four and Elite Eight (twice) back when we were in the MVC. And I bet even Dodge could have beaten the crap out of their football team when he was here. Memphis made it to the championship (among 5 other appearances). Louisville made 3 Final Fours while we were in the MVC. 8 Sweet Sixteens before we left in 1975, 9 total appearances. Cincinnati won the NCAA tournament twice and lost in the championship game once during the time we were in the MVC with them. 5 Final Fours, 8 total appearances. Not a defense of the program, but just pointing out that they haven't passed us by if they were already past us back then. They were already successful far beyond anything we've done then or now before we parted company with them.

For anyone keeping score, we had 9 potential returning players (meaning, scholarship guys with eligibility remaining). 8 if you don't count Tony, who isn't leaving for Central Montana Tech just to get out of here. So, 8 guys, and 2 of them have already jumped ship. Of the remaining 6, two are going to be seniors with no redshirt year option remaining (meaning, they're stuck here unless they quit basketball or drop down from D-1). And another is TJ Taylor, who has already enrolled at 4 different colleges and probably couldn't afford to leave unless he was willing to drop below D-1, too. That leaves Jordan, CJ, and Coleman. What odds would you need in order to bet that all three of them stick around?

Does he still send Benford a like-a-Father's Day gift in a few weeks?

I was a little confused by the hire when I first heard about Benford as a candidate, but honestly, I was on board when he got the job. By far, the biggest thing I was looking for in a new coach was someone who could keep the roster together and let us field the team JJ had spent 10 years building. I thought and still think that last year was the brass ring, our once in 2 or 3 generations shot at the sort of year that would cement us as a real basketball program, and redefine our ceiling in terms of postseason success and high level recruit awareness. Absolute worst case, I thought any caretaker coach who had our lineup could basically roll the ball out on the court and get out of the way, and we'd get to 20 wins and contend for both the NIT and NCAA auto-bids. When Benford was hired and managed to keep the roster intact (which I thought and still think was less than 50/50, depending on our hire)... I thought it was a solid hire. The Marquette thing was a concern, and I did expect an experienced coach (even though my top choice, the one I was very vocal in advocating for, was an assistant with no prior head coaching experience). But Priority 1, by far, was keeping the team together so that we could take our shot at the brass ring. That happened, and because of that, I don't second guess the process or fault the reasoning that led to Benford's hire. I have no problem with the initial hire, given what we knew at the time. But, just like with Dodge, I have a lot of problems with what we've allowed to happen since the hire. I think we've made different, but potentially much worse mistakes, with how we've allowed Benford to run things. And they aren't the sort of choices that are exclusively at Benford's discretion... The most galling one (worse than Trey, in my opinion) needs RV or someone in academic administration (not sure which) to approve cutting a stipend check. And at this time, I think we know what we've got. Beyond just blowing our shot at the brass ring, I think that even 2 or 3 full years of this is going to set our program back 10 years. But I don't think we've got $1.7 million to throw at Benford to make him go away now. I had a long post in mind when Western Kentucky got added to CUSA about why I respect them so much and what sets them apart from us with respect to success, expectations, history, and financial support. Never made it, but those differences are very relevant to how we're handling (and financially able to handle) what's happening in basketball.

I was skeptical when FIU hired him, but he definitely proved something last year.

I may be paraphrasing instead of quoting, but... So... We still suck?

If our next basketball coach manages to hover around .500 in conference and earns 2 NCAA berths in his first two years of rebuilding what I expect he's going to inherit... I'm willing to commission the statue RIGHT NOW. Just let me know what he's going to look like.

+1

Didn't sign in the early period, regular signing period doesn't open for 2 more weeks. He's nothing but a verbal anywhere, and the word has been Tech for the past few weeks.

Seems like most of the time recently, it was a one bid league WITH Memphis. Best addition yet. Bringing something to the table other than geography, compromise, or the whimsical prospect of major market presence.

Best addition CUSA made

The end result of a lifetime of training and intense focus.

Not unless it's the drop lever on a gallows. Don't even joke about rooting for that guy.

Whenever you edit the post on page 4 with added names, they should also show up in the top-of-page "solved" post whenever someone else loads the thread.

Flagged as "solved", so now it should show up at the top of every page for anyone checking the thread.

And if you're wondering about a discount rate... 30=12. By conversion, 16=6.4. Even I think 7 wins is pessimistic, Andrew.

I wish I had a screencap of the 23 win prediction from a game chat back in January... Basically, just give it another 10-12 weeks, and reality will finish sinking in.