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Connor Means has been a starting QB for a Class 5A high school in Texas for two years. I am sure him and his family are used to his performance being judged by coaches, scouts, teammates, classmates, community members and football fans. If they aren't used to it, they better get ready because he just accepted a free college education in exchange for executing football plays on fall Saturdays in front of 20-something thousand fans who demand to win and be entertained. I never talked crap about the kid, just stated that he was an average high school quarterback. Now, that is subjective, but I based that assessment on my opinion of his stats and, if I wanted to take the time, I am confident I could prove his stats are, in fact, average. I follow UNT recruiting pretty closely, and there is no offseason in recruiting. When my schedule allows, I like to go watch UNT commits play on Friday nights. I also follow their box scores on the Internet. Means stats were an outlier compared to other QBs getting FBS scholarship offers. I wanted to know what our coaches saw in this kid to justify allocating a scholarship to him. I know from reading this board that other UNT fans were wondering the same thing so I just shared what I discovered and my thoughts on it. To be successful, UNT has to be able to identify and develop undervalued assets. I am rooting for this kid.

Is it off season already???? BTW- AS A REMINDER: I get what this thread is trying to say, but talking crap about our recruits is beneath some of you. Believe it or not, they and their families read this board.

Tyrone Williams has been wearing a UNT wrist band while playing for the past few months, FWIW.

That dunk alone, increased Detoit's population by 50K

Wait, we're gonna backhandedly criticize Thompson's mobility as the stone-footed era then compare everyoe else's high school passing stats? Rick

When North Texas hired Mike Canales to be its offensive coordinator, Canales stated his desire to find a quarterback who could be a threat both running and passing. Four years into Canales tenure, UNT has had better luck finding Nathan Tunes dog than finding a dual threat quarterback. The Derek Thompson era (otherwise known as the Stone-foot Age) will end at UNT after this season. Can Deer Parks Connor Means develop into the type of offensive threat Canales wants in a quarterback? If I had a stock broker, I imagine he would tell me that past performance does not guarantee future results. I may not have an eTrade account, but I do have a Rivals account. And after a disappointing senior season of high school, North Texas is hoping past performance does not indicate how Means college career will play out. Without being able to account for variables such as the quality of opponents/teammates/coaching, lets look at how Means, our only QB commitment, compared as a high school senior with the high school senior stats of his future teammates and the starting QBs of each of UNTs opponents. College Player Comp Passing YDS Pass TD INT UNT Connor Means 49% 1,323 yds 10 TD 9 INT UNT Dajon Williams 58% 1,618 yds 15 TD 3 INT UNT Andrew McNulty 55% 1,438 yds 12 TD 5 INT UNT Brock Berglund 61% 2,150 yds 23 TD 5 INT Idaho Chad Chalich 73% 3,641 yds 42 TD 2 INT Ohio Tyler Tettleton 57% 1,947 yds 21 TD 11 INT Ball State Keith Wenning, 69% 3,629 yds 40 TD 12 INT Georgia Aaron Murray 61% 2,285 yds 33 TD 5 INT Tulane Nick Montana 58% 2,636 yds 34 TD 10 INT MTSU Austin Grammer 74% 3,007 yds 30 TD 4 INT La Tech Ryan Higgins 60% 1,804 yds 11 TD 4 INT S Miss Nick Mullens 64% 3,649 yds 40 TD 7 INT Rice Taylor McHargue 47% 1,309 yds 13 TD 11 INT UTEP Mack Leftwich 66% 3,331 yds 45 TD 4 INT UTSA Eric Soza 55% 1,523 yds 15 TD 6 INT Tulsa Dane Evans 64% 3,265 yds 36 TD 13 INT Now before we go jumping headfirst off the top of the Apogee tail because Means ranks near the bottom in completion percentage and passing yards with the worst touchdown to interception ratio, lets consider that Means stats are not HORRIBLE. In fact, they are average. Means was an average high school quarterback. Hey, as a 2013 North Texas football fan, I am an expert at watching average quarterback play. Of the guys above, Means stats most closely resemble Rices Taylor McHargue and UTSAs Eric Soza. If Means could go on to have a college career like those two, I would be happier than Darrell Dickey at 3 a.m. on Bourbon Street. But McHargue and Soza derive most of their value from their legs (Curse your legs, Soza! Your beautiful, pocket-escaping, playmaking legs. Oh how we long for a UNT quarterback with legs. Not Joe Namath wearing pantyhose legs. But its 3rd and 7 and all the receivers are covered and you can scramble for a first down legs.) What kind of legs does Means have? His 40 time is listed on recruiting sites as 4.65. But high school 40 times are less reliable than a Ron Mendoza defensive game plan. As a runner, Means averaged six yards a carry and scored 10 touchdowns. That seemed kinda impressive until I noticed that Derek Thompson ran for 6.5 yards a carry and scored 13 rushing touchdowns in his final year of high school. I also heard that Means runs the 300 hurdles in track. (Hey, so did RG3!) But cant find any results that indicate how good he is at it. It has also been reported that Means is a basketball player (his dad is the varsity basketball coach). But as far as I can tell, Means averaged 2.7 points a game before permanently disappearing from the Deer Park basketball box scores halfway through his junior season. Means football highlight film shows a long run where he weaves his way through a defense to score a touchdown and has other runs where he demonstrates decent straight line speed. Means played Class 5A Texas football in a good district. Its not like the guys hes playing are a bunch of suburban Colorado hippies wearing hemp shoulder pads. But Means elusiveness will not remind anyone of Riley Dodge. He is not a future 1,000 yard rusher. So why would North Texas give a scholarship to a high school quarterback with average passing stats, a sub .500 record as a varsity starter (he did lead his JV team to a 10-0 record as a sophomore!) who does not possess elite running ability? Well, UNT wasnt the only school to offer Means a scholarship. Recruiting sites list other offers from Boise State, Texas State, La-Lafayette and La-Monroe. Going back to the mid-90s, I cant think of an incoming UNT freshman, who was recruited as a quarterback, with that many FBS offers. If Means cant play quarterback at the next level, UNT isnt the only program he fooled. While Means has yet to prove he is a college quarterback, his picture could certainly be used to catfish an unsuspecting Internet user to believe he was one. Means is a full 6-3 and 205 with the frame to get heavier. He looks comfortable in the pocket and can take a hit. While his arm is not anything to tweet about, it looks like he can make all the throws necessary to spread the field and keep a defense honest. So why wasnt he a better high school player? The scouting reports mention a small mechanical flaw in his delivery (his elbow is too low when he throws) which impacts his accuracy (thus the low completion percentage and high interceptions). This will be the key to Means success in Denton. Means attended the UNT satellite camp and has thrown in front of Canales and Dan McCarney a couple of times. They must think they can fix him! UNT is hoping that Means can be the new car you buy on deep discount because the dealer left it outside during a bad hail storm. Just give it a new paint job and a little body work and your friends will never know! The truth is, if Means already had a perfect delivery and impressive stats, hed probably be heading to the Big 12. For a FBS QB, Means moves well, possesses ideal size and has acceptable arm strength. Those are assets you cant coach. It is smart football to include a quarterback in every recruiting class and this is the time in the life cycle of the UNT football program to invest in one with raw upside. If Andrew McNulty, Brock Berglund and Dajon Williams are who we hope they are, then Means doesnt have to be anything more than a 4th string QB for at least two years. That gives Canales time in the laboratory to work through his flaws and improve his accuracy. If Canales can do that, Means past performance will have no bearing on his future results.

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I really don't understand why some are so negative about this thread. I think the OP gives some really good insight into Conner and why we shouldn't be discouraged by his poor senior year of high school. I'd bet Conner himself would tell you it's not the senior year he wanted. There's also some great insight into the fact that he may be able to start practicing with us this fall. This is really a great, insightful thread. I don't see anything in this thread that should upset Conner.

I feel compelled to offer an apology to the board and to the university for comments I made earlier this year. Back before the season started, I picked us to go 5-7, with 4-8 as a real possibility. I felt that DT was not the QB to lead us forward. ANd I felt like the UTSA matchup was a perfect game for fans to really gauge if we are moving in the right direction. I voiced the opinion that rarely do fans get an opportunity to see clearly if we are wasting our time with the program or if there is something really to build on. I figured that if we lost to UTSA, it would be calamitous, because it was one of 2 games I had down as sure wins, along with Idaho. Losing to a 3rd year program at home would be the end of the line for me. But I never foresaw us being 7-3 and then losing to them, which would also give them 6 wins on the year. I expected UTSA to go 0-12 this year, I really did. Losing to UTSA, to me, would have meant we were 1-11 or 2-10, at best. Obviously, that was all wrong. I feel kind of hypocritical for making those posts--the progress we have shown this year as a program is EXACTLY what I wanted to see. When McCarney originaly got hired, I believed that his third year would be the breakout year. But then when this year rolled around, I lost that confidence in the program being ready to move upward in his third year, thinking next year was his best chance to move us upward and get an extension. Now, I firmly believe Coach Mac deserves that extension, even if it just a year or two. In the end, losing to UTSA was understandable, while losing at Southern Miss would have been inexcusable--who saw that at the beginning of the year? I give major props to Larry Coker and the Roadrunners of UTSA. They are going to be a power in this conference--I truly believe this. I actually always have, just didn't think it would be that way until about 2015 or later. Now, I'm not sure they aren't going to be the favorite next year to win CUSA West, with Rice. That is incredible and it really does speak to UTSA's vision for creating a football program that would be ready to run immediately. From hiring an experienced AQ coach to start the program, to connecting with the civic leaders in San Antonio to build a huge amount of momentum around the team, and to the amazing promotions that have introduced UTSA Football to so many SA residents, they are going to reap what they have sowed for several years ahead. I am now firmly in the camp of them being the next South Florida--taking advantage of a huge market without a college team. I look forward to seeing us play them in the years to come, but I firmly expect them to be very tough to beat as the years move forward.

We're going bowling, but we have not been perfect along the way.

I thought about not doing this... but I'm going for it. As I was shopping on my favorite clothing site today ( THAT is NOT a Texas store- online only)..... I found THIS! http://www.modcloth.com/shop/dresses/dreaming-of-denton-dress Notice that its GREEN!!!! and BLACK. GMG!

UAB 85 Florida A&M 73 ODU @ St. Louis St. Bonaventure vs. Louisiana Tech Tulsa @ Indiana St.

Cedrick Hardman would have been considered average by some when he was at his Texas HS and listed as 5' 10" 185 pounds. While at North Texas Cedrick Hardman grew to 6'5" 240, became an All Conference player, an NFL #1 draft choice and then an All Pro for several seasons. Not sure why he is still not in the NFL Hall of Fame since he hold the SF 49'ers record of most sacks (whether that stat was official back in that day or not; fact remains that Cedrick still has the most sacks for that NFL team). I'm glad we have Connor as an early commit and I don't know the purpose of these kind of threads when these kids and their parents are reading them quite frankly but that...........IMHO, of course.

I have said it from the start. UTSA is a good school to have in our conference. Good fan support, fun city, and apparently a good football team. I think a rivalry will develop between UNT and UTSA over the coming years.

From everything I hear, this is simply not the case. We can't go through coaches like diapers, but we have some room to correct a situation such as this. With the off season improvements, there is evidence to support it. Even Western Kentucky had to wait until 1 1/2 years to see if their coach could sustain what the previous one did.

So you're not going to Tulsa?

Having a big series!!

Jake Olson's journey became a national story for a second time after Chuck Petersen put blind player on the field as a long snapper at Orange Lutheran: http://www.dentonrc.com/sports/high-schools/high-school-football-headlines/20131127-football-facilitating-a-dream.ece

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NCAA-College-Football-Heart-of-Dallas-Bowl-Patch-2012-13-Oklahoma-State-Purdue-/310535721916?pt=US_NCAA_Fan_Shop&hash=item484d5f13bc

Doesn't this conflict with watching us play Tulsa?

We're hardly the only forum that criticizes its players. Doesn't mean we don't appreciate the heck out of all of them. But in college football you aren't measured by your sacrifice, you're measured by your production.

But only if they read this board and this board exclusively. What happens here is tame compared to what kids get at other Texas universities. I would hope they would be thankful that people cared enough to argue. You remember Ohio's fan board earlier this year and the 5 daily posts they averaged?

When you're good you get to talk about what would make you better.

Perfect for Christmas present - to wear at bowl game!!

Great Story Brett. Good work

Only if we had a clone of their OC and head coach on our sideline. They were aggressive until the end. We aren't aggressive in the 1st quarter. HUGE difference.

This is a must win game for us to salvage the good feelings this season has produced. To go to a bowl game on a two game losing streak would not be good. I expect our players to come out pissed off and ready to go. Man, I hope that expectation comes true.

Totally agree. Let's take whoever the coaches think will help the program. If they can make it at the next level, great. If not, they get an awesome education from a school that actually makes sure its athletes get the education student-athletes should always receive.

As someone who's bought a bunch of Modcloth for my wife before... this is awesome.

I don't think anyone's argued that we have. But freakin-a, man!!! This team has performed well beyond the expectations of a crapload of people around here. Before the season started, people that said things like "My gut tells me we're no more than a 5 win team again. All of our reasons to hope for improvement are complete unknowns and I fear we're getting Stratford'd all over again," and "Until we get a more productive defensive line and some pass rushers, no game is a given. I'd say anywhere from 4-8 to 6-6. 6-6 means someone forfeited to us." Come on! Even with after what's been our best season in nearly a decade, people still want to take a dump all over this team. I don't get it, man. It's just like that handful of people that were down on the Rangers after the Giants throttled them in 2010. This wasn't fully pointed at you, greenminer, but I've read some things in the past few days that have really frustrated me around here. Sure, the UTSA loss sucked and I have to have a God-awful avatar for a few more days, but still. We're freaking playing in the post-season!!!!

Thank goodness we have Mac and not Leach.

That BS game planning and offensive play calling are getting us to a bowl after 8 years and POSSIBLY 8-4 this season with pretty much the same line up as last year. Kinda hard to argue with facts. How did you predict this season going in August???

That is true of every recruit regardless of position. Just look at Brelan Chancellor, a low rated 2 star WR that has been dynamic for ys since he set foot on campus. But, I also agree with Billy. Davis, Adams, Goree and Rutherford to some degree, are accomplished receivers in HS not just a physical specimen that could develop.

If he ends up being a starter (and maybe a superstar), will we be the Means Greens?

From the crowd shot, I thought they were playing at The Coliseum for a moment.

Wish list? A JUCO transfer or 2 or 3 who would all enroll this December and be Spring football ready? Bill Snyder's KSU Wildcats did well with a JUCO QB this Fall. A pass rushing delux of a DE would be a bonus.

This is my dog...um...Roy! His previous owner wasn't hip enough for him. He needed a master that marched to a different tune. all in good fun.

2012: Football 4-8 (33%) Basketball 12-20 (37%) 2013 (through 7 games): Football 4-3 (57%) Basketball 4-3 (57%)

UNTJim, As a Roadrunner, thanks for the props. I would just say that a lot of what's happened at UTSA rests on the AD, Lynn Hickey. This is pretty much her vision come to fruition. As for UNT, I see nothing but upward and onward as well. I think both McCarney and Coker have their teams moving in the right direction. Yeah, UTSA lead the entire way in this game, but UNT was charging in the end. Who knows, if they score at the end, a lot of the pain could be down in S.A. right now. But, I would love to see both of my schools' football programs grow together. And I would like to see this game be scheduled regulary late in November/Thanksgiving. You gotta love a late-season game with heavy post-season implications riding on it. Why not make it all about the birds on Thanksgiving: Turkeys, Eagles, and Roadrunners. LOL

I wonder if he meant 3am after the Cincinnati game or 3am before the Memphis game...

I was thinking about an indoor facility when McCarney mentioned on his radio show that they didn't practice outside as they normally do on Sundays due to the weather. An indoor facility could help not only football but all sports ... and even the marching band ... if it's a full field size facility.

I'd definitely rather be 7-4 with a loss to UTSA, than 1-10 with a win against UTSA.

Thanks Benford!

two more Can we fly our flags in the parking lot ?

Actually last week was the "must win" game,and we lost. A win against Tulsa pads our record and might effect which bowl we go to, but basically we have nothing much to play for. No Division title, no CUSA Championship,and no Liberty Bowl.While I certainly hope we beat Tulsa for the 1st time since 1969,we need to play better with nothing on the line than we did last week with everything on the line. Hard to do.

Vegas is a cesspool of all that's wrong with America so I take the Denton slam with a grain of salt.

Wow. Hey, Las Vegas ain't all that great during the daylight hours, bro. And, hot? Nevadas got that in spades as well. Humid? This ain't Houston. We're six hours from the coast. Humidity is fine here. I'm guessing the author doesn't realize how big the DFW metroplex is these days. There are no more long stretches of nothing between Dallas and Denton.

Isn't the HOD Bowl still pissed at us because of our Homecoming Queen????

I went to a Jared store in South Austin to get my wife's ring cleaned and serviced (yes I went to Jared) and the lady said I'd need to drop it and pick it up hours later or the next day(can't remember which). As she was writing up the ticket, the guy behind the class (dude that services the jewelry) comes out after noticing my UNT hat, says he went to NT too, takes my wife's ring back and gets it done in 15 minutes. Being Mean Green got to the front of the line.