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Now, I'm never one to miss out on getting a dig in on the Oracle of Southlake, but a quick trip to the Hall of Fame forum reveals that nearly everybody thought it was a hell of a hire at the time. Foolish hire in retrospect? Yes. But I'd call it a gamble gone horribly wrong more than I'd call it foolish.

The same national media said the hiring of Benford was a home run and a better hire than Brown at SMU. Let the results dictate the effectiveness.

New AD

"SMU has one of the best tailgating experiences in the country..." quite possibly the stupidest thing you've ever said on this board. Not sure how a school that struggles to get more than 20K to a game, unless they depend on the visiting school bringing 10K, can have a top notch tailgating scene.

Winning is probably the biggest factor, but there's a lot more to it than that. Consider this: For our 8th consecutive losing season, we averaged about 19,000. We performed better than Kent State (11-3), Northern Illinois (12-2), Ball State (9-4), Middle Tennessee (8-4), Western Kentucky (7-6), and several other winning teams. We have essentially drawn even with SMU for the past several years, even while they have been consistently winning. If you compare TCU to SMU you find that the former averaged over double the attendance of their Boulevarding rivals--and both were 7-6. The immediate explanation would of course be that TCU had a better schedule, playing their first year in the Big 12. Also, one could point to the fact that their winning has been much more visible and meaningful over the past few years than that of SMU. Still, 46,000 to 21,000, for teams with identical records, suggests something deeper. Simply put, Fort Worth feels more of a connection to TCU than Dallas does to SMU. Now, where do Denton and UNT fit into this? Denton County is somewhat disconnected to the Mean Green, but considering our numbers, our attendance hasn't been THAT bad, especially for a football program that hasn't given fans even the slightest tinge of excitement for almost a decade. I really think the Denton area and north DFW suburbs would LOVE to have a local college football team to watch live that doesn't require a soul-shattering drive through horrendous traffic in the midst of Dallas or Ft Worth. Would a 6-6 or 7-5 record set the metroplex abuzz over the Mean Green? No. But, it would give potential fans at least something of relevance to watch up in Denton. That alone won't be enough to create more than a minor bump in attendance; however, if our AD markets it properly and screams our successes from the rooftops (modest though they may be), then I think the possibility is there to snatch at least a portion of DFW's attention. I think people are getting things reversed when they point to the Dickey teams that were winning and still not drawing many fans. Rather than viewing that as a cautionary tale about how winning doesn't help attendance at UNT, I think we need to be asking, "Now that we've largely fixed some of the major impediments to attendance that stymied us back in the early 00s, just think what we could average now if we had a successful year?"

Stupid, but, understandable once I saw the word "libertarian" attached to it. If anyone overreacts more than Republicans and Democrats, it's Libertarians. It would be best for society if the Libertarians would follow through on their threats to go build an Ayn Rand-society on an island somewhere. You'd think with all the wealth they claim to be able to amass, they'd put it altogether and go buy an island and leave. Go on, libertarians, pool your money, buy an island, and leave. Take your guns, your drugs, your 138% trust in free market capitalism free from any restraint.

Winning...plain and simple. At this time the UNT fan base in the majority is pretty much on the bandwagon variety. That is fairly understandable given the record the last some odd years. It's too bad, but it is true! Are things changing a bit? Sure they are, but winning will get UNT and its fan base much much faster. So, let the winning begin!

My problem is that you COMPLETELY misrepresented what I said. I never called for diffferent outcomes for Jommerson or Abbe, yet you post that I do directly under my quoted comments that clearly show that I don't. Pretty freaking sorry, and I don't get your motivation. Did you just pick tthree guys you knew were white?

Lot of conjecture going around here. I just asked a simple question "Why the rush to condemn two players and not the third?" If you see it as a racial issue that's your spin...I can't assume your motives. It's not my job to both ask and answer for you. Or, am I to assume that because I'm black that race is the only card I am able to play? If that's your assumption (Lifer et al) then, yes, I will call you on that. I wonder, if TTG or Zeke or CMJ had done the research and pointed out the blatant double standard applied reacting to December's arrests and this months...would we have a line of people conjuring up the names of every civil rights leader they can to compare them to? If they questioned why we wanted to boot two kids from the team for theft (body count of zero that I can think of) and "save our indignation" for a kid that drives drunk (a crime that kills so many there's a group of mothers specifically against it) would we assume that those white guys were playing the race card? I never accused any of you of being racist, your words not mine. I just said you were hypocrites...a charge that 97and03 freely and maturely owns up to. I am amused though that when a lay out a cogent argument your only response is "It's all about race with YOU PEOPLE"

FroggyStyle finally made me laugh! I don't know if I agree but it's funny and may be true. I think theft is more serious than a traffic violation. Premeditation versus drunken decision making. Most college kids drink and make stupid decisions. Theft is bs though. Either way players can screw up and shouldn't be kicked off unless they are habitual line steppers. It's not like the aforementioned characters committed felonies. If anyone gets kicked off the team I hope it is because of the totality of circumstances.

These two comments stood out to me. First, SMU is winning but they are still not drawing well. Not only is that a knock on SMU but it's also a warning to us ... just winning doesn't necessarily mean we'll have sellouts every week. That's why is so important to have quality facilities, great game day experience, and for the athletic department to continue to reach out to the school and community. This is something Mac does so well and when he retires from coaching he would make a great ambassador for the university. Secondly, if you think SMU's tailgating experience is one of the best in the nation then you need to get out more.

Drama Queen.

You are definitely right, Mitchell may be the best athlete to play bb at NT but he was far from the best player. He would even have some tough competition for the best athlete label. Last year was awful, it is entirely possible that next year could be a better team with a significantly improved record. I think it depends on how much Benford can grow as a coach. Jones and Alzee Williams are potentially going to be very good. Last year almost everything turned bad, hopefully NT will get more breaks next year.

Now, there are huge variables in replacing players, including the best player to ever lace up in Mean Green and the unquestioned leader in the locker-room. Huge losses. Kenneth Lyons, John Savage, Joe Hamilton, Lee Winfield (just to name a few) didn't play a game last year.

Seriously, we have a small group of alums that are providing the where with all to do these difficult things, like buy out contracts, pay assistant coaches more etc... That is how we paid McCarney et al, and how we paid Benford, et al and Peterson et al. This group watches (watched) the same games you do (did). This group talks about the same things you do (did). This group wants to win as bad as you do or they would not put up the hundreds of thousands of dollars (collectively 7 figures) that it takes (took) to do certain things. In meetings this group talks about how the SCHOOL should be paying coaches salaries etc...and donor dollars should be going to facilities and funding student athlete scholarships. But unfortunately, that is not the way it works here, and it is not the way it works at SMU, TCU, and many other places. We are working to get our student fee in line with our competition. The more you donate, the more we are able to do these difficult things that you are talking about. But to say we do not have commitment is just not fair to a lot of people who are doing everything they can do to make things better for everyone. If I was ever negative about any kid, or put the blame for a basketball season on any kid publicly, then I wish I could take it back. At the same time I do not see any reason to publicly bash on an internet forum any coach, admin, player or anyone else involved in North Texas Athletics. There is a time for "private conversation", and a time for "public conversation". I know you are mad Mr. UNT90, but recruits read this board, and some of the things that you say could be harmful. Some of the things you say leave me saying "Why am I doing what I am doing for our school?" We are not too poor. We are finally tapping the wells of our many very wealthy alums that want exactly what you want. It is been bad in the past, but we are light years ahead of where we were ten years ago. Can you at least admit that? That we are finally in every sport giving our student athletes first class facilities to compete and practice in. That there is no excuse for any coach to not have the tools to come here and succeed? That is the goal. To remove every excuse. Our weight room is not nice enough? B.S. it is as nice as any in the country. Our basketball gym is top notch. Our football stadium is a palace. If a coach cannot win here, he or she should be gone. Period. That is what I believe, and that is what your athletic director believes. And I still think that if Johnny Jones would have been here with this team, the record would have been very similar. Blast me on this if you want to, and I respect your opinion. But we had no one who could shoot from the outside, and it killed our inside game. David

Not sure there's room for a one year QB, and sounds like he doesn't like the receiver gig. If he changes his mind on being a receiver he sounds good to me.

Come out and see Coach Mac tonight at the Coach's Caravan. It's being held at Apogee. No charge. Ask him whatever is on your mind, along with coaches from other sports.

I read the DMN everyday including seeing the story on Abbe in Friday morning's edition....but to be consistent with the times I found out about it first much earlier on gmg.com!

Don't tell that to every Rangers bandwagon jumper in DFW. They'll make sure you know that this is a baseball town for sure. Nevermind the fact that they were nowhere to be found in Arlington as recently as 2009.

I think what SMU deals with on this is even worse than what we have to deal with. SMU is located smack dab in the middle of a big city that only cares about winners--but it has to be winners that matter, i.e., pro teams, Texas, OU, A&M, Tech, etc...The only time that SMU was ever relevant to the market that drew big crowds in the last 35 years was during their pay-for-play days. They got to be a regular Top 20 team AND had the benefit of playing the big name SWC schools to help with the attendance, too. They haven't had those now in 20-25 years. UNT fans don't come to games for a lot of reasons, but the biggest reason is that we don't play teams that people care to watch in person. We have never played anyone in conference play that gets a big draw. SMU, since 1995, has pretty much dealt with the same thing. I can't imagine how much it sucks for a typical SMU rich-guy alum who gets lucky enough to go watch SMU play Temple, when he was a student, the worst conference game he saw was SMU and Rice. If it weren't for TCU on their schedule, SMU alums wouldn't have even one opponent on their schedule that matters to them. Maybe Houston, but... SMU alums don't care about Houston in the same way they did about Texas A&M. They don't care about Tulane in the way they cared about Baylor. They don't care about Tulsa like they did about Texas Tech. Keep in mind, this isn't even counting the two huge heavyweights of the SWC days--Texas and Arkansas, who both guaranteed a huge crowd just by hosting the game, whether it was at the Cotton Bowl, Texas Stadium, or Ownby Stadiumwhen they played the Hogs or Horns. They got left behind, as well as they should have. Their repeated infractions, small size, and their eventual fallback to being a perennial loser were too much to overcome. Baylor had none of those stigmas when they got included in the Big XII. TCU figured out a way to get FW behind them and to win against teams that people had heard of, but didn't have the advantages on a recruiting front that TCU had. Now, they both got the invite to the big boys table. SMU won't get that, even if they started winning at a TCU-type level. The demand for a private school with a small enrollment isn't going to get any AQs attention unless you do what TCU did--go to huge AQ games and finish in the top 5. And if you aren't AQ--now or in the future, especially--your attendance in an area like Dallas isn't going to be anything that special. If you are a monied fan in Dallas, most likely your sports dollars are spent on the following: Cowboys, Mavs, Rangers, Stars, Texas-OU, Cotton Bowl game, going to college games in Austin, College Station, Lubbock, Norman, Stillwater, Fayetteville, etc.., then games at TCU or Baylor, then SMU. Actually, fans in Highland Park and University Park probably pay more $$ to follow HPHS than SMU. If SMU got games against those Big XII powers every week, that would obviously change. But that ship has sailed for SMU. Our situation is really apples to oranges with SMU. I don't know if we won against the current SBCUSA schools if that would really move the needle with a big jump in attendance at Apogee--I'd like to think it would and that it would get us to a point where we saw 25k crowds often in Denton. But in the midst of a 26 game conference winning streak and a 4 year SBC championship run, our attendance still averaged around 15-18k. Since we still mostly play those teams still in conference, and with an OOC schedule that usually isn't all that great, I just don't know if we will see that kind of jump. Fans in this area of college football care about the Big AQ teams first--its how they were raised. I'm not sure that this can ever change--unless you are somehow fortunate enough to play those schools at home every year or two. SMUs alumni saw those teams regularly--but their cheating killed their program from ever being in the big boys leagues. I wouldn't blame them for just walking away from that. But the UNT fan hasn't even had that luxury. We are thrilled to trade Louisiana-Monroe for Louisiana Tech, even though it probably won't bring more than a extra 1000 or two to a home game in Denton. Its just the sad history of being an outsider, both because of schools like SMU in the SWC and because our leadership didn't want us to ever be a bigtime athletic school.

This and this alone. It solves everything. We just haven't ever done it, so we don't have any way of proving it. But it works elsewhere...

Are you out of your mind? We would have to wade though PETA protesters and vegans just to get to the game. However, 25 lbs of Tofurkey might get some of the music and art students to show up.

Right and UNT beat ULL (9-4) who beat East Carolina (8-5) in a bowl, who beat Houston. Who cares? Anyone can do this kind of crap all day, every day. My point still remains. Ohio (9-4) is a good team (at our level). I expect us to be competitive with them in our 3rd year under our head coach. Not saying UNT will be favored to win on the road, in fact actually the opposite. I recognize that Ohio is tough at home. They are not Georgia. That game IS a legitimate long shot. There is a HUGE difference.

Really? Because you are the one assuming to know how I would respond to a phantom TTG post. Seems your rhetorical back pedaling skills exceed your athletic back pedaling skills.

Yep. I'm black so every argument I make must have some racial agenda. Even when I tell you specifically that I don't my inner Al Sharpton simply must prevail...right? You know me, I've always been one to pull punches and refuse to be blunt. I simply asked the question of why so much flip flopping was going on. Somehow, then, as the black author of the question I couldn't possibly be doing so without attempting to paint you as David Duke. I honestly don't know why the players are being viewed differently, I don't presume to know the hearts and minds of others. Could it be because we have a dire need for DT's and we are therefore willing to forgive any warm body at that position? Could it be that society at large has a "everybody does it" mentality toward drinking and driving? Could it be that any number of things? I don't know. What I do know is that it is telling that the original question has thus far been ignored while the crusade to paint me as the next Huey Newton has been full steam ahead. Guess that's just simpler...and yep pretty damn racist. My personal issue with your quoted remarks is that you actually took the time to SPECIFICALLY juxtapose theft with drunk driving and pointed out that drunk driving hurts people. Then, when a player actually drives under the influence, it's all "everybody makes mistakes" and "at least he's not raping or murdering". If you can't see the irony in that I don't know exactly what to say. Now if you'll excuse me Minister Farrakhan just texted me and needs my help with a bean pie sale.

http://www.saturdayedge.com/10897/idaho-football-2013-spring-wrap-up/

Mark, Jesse and I are going to meet this week to discuss putting this game together. More details to follow. GMG

Now it's defensive time...hard to do with a hurt arm.

Taking a page out of the John Wiley Price, Al Lipscomb, Diane Ragsdale playbook officer? It is called baiting, and you appear to be masterful. Pun intended.

I can remember back to the halcyon days of my ill- spent youth when SMU drew great crowds at the Cotton Bowl, but not everyone in the stands was wearing Polo and Gucci. Fans back then came from not only the Park Cities but from neighborhoods such as Pleasant Grove and Oak Cliff as well as Mesquite and Garland etc. There is a troubling in- bred quality at SMU games these days and at the rate they are going there will soon be more spectators in the sky boxes (or whatever) than in the stands. While this is not a UNT problem, the point is that that we could do a better job of promotion and marketing beyond Denton County. A nice big ad, for example, in the DMN from time to time shouldn't bust our budget.

Man, that arm must really be sore.

Spending time worrying about what everyone says on this board is not time well spent.

Is there a good reason to continually bring this stuff up and reliving events of the past? Every school has kids who will make mistakes. Every school has their own way of dealing with these kids. Every school has a poster or some posters who want to be judge, jury and executioner even though they do not have all the facts or all the info on what's happening.

I don't have to say anything, KRAM. The casual Alum is shown time and again that we don't care about athletics when we refuse to do what every other university that is serious about athletics would have done. And we are told time and again that we are just too poor to act like powers such as USM. That sends it's own message.

Has anybody ever seen Emmitt and GL2Greatness in the same room at the same time?

If only I could +100 you.

You are correct, UNT90....perception is a powerful thing. It's like if you say something enough times, you think people might just start believing it.

Finally you are pointing jabs in exaaacccctttlllyyy the right direction!!!!!!!! Bingo, our regents.

Didn't read this part fully the first time through. SHOW ME ANYWHERE ON THIS BOARD WHERE I CALLED FOR ABBEY (A WHITE PLAYER) TO BE TREATED DIFFERENTLY FROM JIMMERSON (A BLACK PLAYER). You can't, because it's not there. And if your gonna make the allegations, be honest and make them. Don't beat around the bush. Calling people racist, especially when they say "kids make mistakes and it's up to the coach" in both circumstances is weak, my friend. Weak.

It was Broom Time this weekend by the Rangers. Nice rebound series sweep after having lost their first series against Chicago. Too bad Darvish got a no decision. Rick

Come on. You'll put together a post that's length can only be rivaled by something plummmeangreen would do and spend God knows how long putting it together, but you won't finish the job? Just say the words.

Fwiw Holton committed to West Virginia. Also I think we can probably close the book on Ward with the Vaughns signing

Not that I'm defending anybody, but anyone with a professional state or federal license knows that theft is considered a crime of moral turpitude while DWI generally is not. Not that DWI can't lead to more dire consequences, but so can making love to your cell phone.

Since nobody else is gonna say it, I will. Their opinions flip flopped because Warner and Jimmerson are black and Abbe is whte.

And the point is? You could dig up my posts too ya know.

I'd be done with him were it my call. Sure kids will be kids... But most kids are not given the luxury of a sweet scholarship deal while they're being "kids." The first one or two arrests (no matter what for) should have served as a slap in the face wake up call. If he wants to finish his degree let him take out a student loan. If he's deemed worthy of playing football let him walkon on the fall.

News of the awarding of the four team playoff with the mythical national championship being played in Jerry's World really is a good fit. The affluent of college football have their little four team gentlemen's club each year while they line their coffers with a trumped up " playoff" of their anointed four.Finally they send their final " playoff" game to JJ so he can rake in his share of the bamboozle. Anything less than the NCAA basketball model is not a playoff and only designed to see that the wealthy get more $$$$. A 16 team playoff with all conference champions being first included is a true playoff. This will never happen because a Wichita State might some how slip through if that were the case. This would fowl the punchbowl at the gentlemen's club for sure.

Same to you, sir

Pot, meet kettle. And, you get drowned out by the same old tiring rhetoric and positivity towards a program spiraling downward. You may chose to see 2-10 and 1-11 seasons as progress. Others here do not. You see it the way you see it, other see it differently. There's nothing wrong with that. You can be UNT's PR machine all day long, but at the end of the day, until we are winning - or, at this point, even competing - it means nothing. Unfortunately for you, the current weight of evidence all around this thing is that Todd Dodge doesn't know what he's doing. It's up to him to prove otherwise. It's not up to us to simply take your word or his at face value after the two seasons of the worst beatings in the school's history. If he had improved the teams even as much as FIU's second year coach did in 2008, things would be different. They're not. They were as horrid as we were in 2007 and improved greatly in 2008. The beating FIU gave us simply shows the gap we face within our own conference. As it stands, Dodge took a 2-10 team in 2007 and made it worse in 2008. If he wants respect, he'll have to do what every other coach in the country does and earn it with the product he puts on the field. Nothing said on a message board will change that. It was a huge gamble to hire him in the first place - and one that doesn't look anywhere near like it wil payoff.