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If some of you will recall, we had a few players arrested for shoplifting in December of 2012. The reactions on this board were myriad. All of the opinions were valid, though not all of them remained consistent just 5 months later. Let's take a walk down memory lane, shall we? KRAM1 12/15/12 “I understand some kid who was just 20 committed a pretty horrible crime today up in Conn. Going to excuse him because he is "just a kid"? No, not comparing the two crimes at all...just commenting on the ridiculous comment about being 19 and as such should somehow be excused for breaking the law....like they had no idea that stealing was against the law and wrong....sure, right.” So, we should expect kids to know right from wrong? Ok, fair enough. But what if they were from a bad environment? KRAM, thoughts? “So tired of this lame excuse for illegal behavior. These two players knew what they were doing was against the aw and Wrong.....loving households or not. Apologist thinking at it worst...this is the type of thinking that allows this crap to go on.....ridiculous. And, this really is a kick in the teeth to all those who grew up in such households but were fully aware of right and wrong and chose right.” Oh, so there is basically no excuse then? I mean you've never been in trouble, right KRAM? “Nope never ever..other than traffic ticket....and a minor in possession of alcoholic beverages while in HS. Stealing is an entirely different matter than a beer as a HS student with some pals and a speeding ticket or two. So, nope! Never have seen the inside of a jail house...except a tour of Alcatraz once. Same for my kids, etc. somehow we seemed to learn that stealing was wrong on several levels. Imagine that....I too hope it was a brief moment of insanity. Not indicting their overall character...I am more commenting on the folks here who want to give them a pass. My guess...they have had several passes in their lives....this is nothing new for some HS football stars, etc. they seem to get away with all sorts of stuff. Some time or other that "getting away with it" stops. Hopefully before they make too big of a mistake. People excusing this crap is what creates a feeling that they can get away with this sort of crap.” I see. So we should certainly believe that a kid who is on his, say, 4th arrest should know better? We should be offended that a kid like this is representing our university! Right, KRAM? I mean, it's not like we should just keep our opinions to ourselves and let the coaches sort it out, right? KRAM1 5/4/13 “Nor should Mac ask any of us for an opinion on how this should be handled. What I am sure about is that Mac is none to happy about young Me. Abbe's choices in the recent past. It will get handled, one way or the other, and some will think it was handled properly and some will not. But, it will be handled to the "satisfaction" of the folks actually involved. Tough calls to make...am very happy i am not the one actually having to make the call about Abbe's football future at UNT.” But surely KRAM is the only one who has flip flopped. Surely. GreenJoe 12/15/12 “The only mistake they made was getting caught. They knew they were stealing. That's why they tried to cover up their theft by stuffing the loot in a backpack. That's the definition of a thief. One that steals. These thieves embarrassed me this morning. These thieves play for my University. Kick them off the team and maybe the other football players at the University of North Texas will notice and not become thieves themselves.” GreenJoe 5/3/13 "Which is worse in the eyes of the Mean Green fans; Shoplifting (theft) or driving under the influence of alcohol ? Abbé is a senior. Is he over 21 ?" Is his age really relevant? I mean, once a drunk driver always a drunk driver...or is that pathological compulsion only true of "thieves"? And where is the furor that we once saw? Shouldn't we be trying to protect the sanctity of our fine university in this case as well? Maybe, though, it's just these two. 97and03 12/16/12 “Kick them off the team. Period. Right now, playing football and representing UNT is their job. I would be fired from my job if I did this, and so would many of you. They knew what they were doing was wrong if they were stuffing merchandise into a backpack.” So, again, we need to take the hard line approach apparently. Surely there isn't a softening of this stance just a few months later.... 97and03 5/4/13 “Been there. Learned from it. Moved on. We all make mistakes. This is more serious than putting a sweatshirt in your backpack and the multiple violations are troublesome. Coach will make the call and I can live with either decision, though because of the position I will be honest and say I hope he lets him back. But I would certainly understand if he didn't. From the photo, you have to say "guilty" but we all know that legal guilt depends on your lawyer and the judge, not necessarily the facts. So if he gets out of a conviction because he has a good lawyer, do you still kick him off the team? I can't see ending his career if he is declared innocent. You can bet he would still be punished though.” Hmmm Awww shucks, surely someone who actually works in the legal profession like me wouldn't take a soft stance on drinking and driving, right? UNT90 12/16/12 “And, most importantly of all, I'm sure no one on here has EVER driven when they were over the legal limit of .08, right? Guess what, that is EXACTLY the same level of offense as this theft. But, of course, this theft didn't involve putting others in danger the way your innocent "I'm OK to drive" DWI violation did, regardless of whether you were caught or not.” There ya go. Let these people know that drinking and driving is dangerous!! Point out that the innocent civilian body count from shoplifting is pretty much nil. And, hey, let's not back pedal on this.... UNT90 5/4/13 “Kids make dumb decisions. Sometimes they make 4 of them. He is not beating up women or children. He is not robbing someone at knifepoint or gunpoint.he is not raping co-eds or dealing drugs. He has done what I bet a majority on this board did in their youth. He just got caught.” I'm a little confused here. Why would we be so harsh on Jimmerson and Warner and not on Abbe? Because Abbe is considered vital to his position and Jimmerson isn't? No. Pretty sure Jim Jim is being counted on to perhaps be our featured back. Because what Abbe did isn't as dangerous to the general public? Ummm, no. Because Jimmerson and Warner are career criminals with multiple prior arrests? Uhhhh.... Then why is it? I wonder. Am I saying that Abbe should be booted from the team? Nope. Am I saying that he is a hardened criminal? Again, nope. But I am a bit amused by the fact that we should, in the words of another poster "save the righteous indignation", when we were oh so quick to condemn just last December. North Texas...where there would be no standards if not for double standards.

These two comments stood out to me. First, SMU is winning but they are still not drawing well. Not only is that a knock on SMU but it's also a warning to us ... just winning doesn't necessarily mean we'll have sellouts every week. That's why is so important to have quality facilities, great game day experience, and for the athletic department to continue to reach out to the school and community. This is something Mac does so well and when he retires from coaching he would make a great ambassador for the university. Secondly, if you think SMU's tailgating experience is one of the best in the nation then you need to get out more.

Fwiw Holton committed to West Virginia. Also I think we can probably close the book on Ward with the Vaughns signing

Spending time worrying about what everyone says on this board is not time well spent.

New AD

If you can be competitive, treat your fans well, and play teams that are of interest to your base, you have a fighting chance of some attendance success. Sorry, but SMU has violated at least two of the three forementioned basics.

Baseball is a sport played indoors at 65 degrees in a stadium with seats that match your uniform. It is enjoyed with a delicious Dome Dog or 7th inning stretch italian ice from the upper deck and a trip to the 9th circle of hell, also known as the Astrodome trough urinals. Sincerely, a forever devoted Astros fan who's pissed about Bud Selig extorting Jim Crane so that the Brewers wouldn't have to go back where they came from, but also still trying to erase the awful, awful, awful memories of Jose Lima and his Casa Ole commercials...

Maybe we should have an accountability coach who's sole job is to teach these kids how to make responsible choices.

Define "playing football"

I know. Went to the UNT game there last year. 17 is way too high.

It's kind of a double edged sword. When you lose head coaches to Texas LSU, and Vandy. it means you are hiring the right people. When you lose star players to those same type of programs,it means you are recruiting the right type of athletic.

It may be a little redundant, and it may still be football season, but I felt those uniforms deserved a discussion thread. Black football uniforms still leave a bad taste in my mouth . . . but if we were to use an alternate 3rd black uniforms, that would be the uniform I would want. Awesome job, 817 Fan. This post has been promoted to an article

Ohio could very easily beat us by 30. Think Houston last year.

I think mani/pedi give aways, free tip frostings, drawings for free facials and a tanning booth garden would do it, but I don't know how they'd get the females in the stadium.

Come on. You'll put together a post that's length can only be rivaled by something plummmeangreen would do and spend God knows how long putting it together, but you won't finish the job? Just say the words.

"SMU has one of the best tailgating experiences in the country..." quite possibly the stupidest thing you've ever said on this board. Not sure how a school that struggles to get more than 20K to a game, unless they depend on the visiting school bringing 10K, can have a top notch tailgating scene.

I think selling alcohol at UNT sporting events would make the defeats hurt less

just another ridiculous comment based on nothing but jealousy SMU plays Tech at home and TCU, TAMU and UH on the road because they played them at home last year 2012 was @ Baylor and UTEP and TAMU, TCU and UH at home 2011 was @TAMU, TCU and UH with Rice and UTEP at home 2010 was @Tech and Rice with UH and TCU at home in the future 2014 is @ Baylor and north Texas with TCU and TAMU at home and that is just the OOC 2015 Baylor and north Texas at home and TCU on the road SMU has one of the best tailgating experiences in the country with a great venue to host it and very comfortable for the fans and while not world beaters they are 3-1 in bowl games over the last 4 years contrast that with a team that has not had a winning season in 8 years and is 1-5 in bowls all time in their history and that last played in a bowl game in 2004 and last won one in 2002 and contrast that with a team that is looking at a schedule this year with Rice and UTEP at home and UTSA on the road as one of the best and most interesting schedules in a decade and you can see your comment is just BS that is the great thing about GMG.....plenty of advice for UT on how "not to get left behind and become irrelevant"......plenty of advice for SMU and TCU on who they need to schedule and how they can both become relevant to their fans and to college football........plenty of concern for Baylor and Tech being left behind when UT bolts from the Big 12 (even though they will be irrelevant by then because TAMU is placing 3rd in their division in the SEC and playing in a non-BCS game) ......concern for UTSA having fans and attendance no longer showing up when the losing starts (even though they are playing "relevant" teams that "fans care about").....advice for UH, SMU, Tulane and Tulsa and on and on about what conference they should be in and who they should play........but when it comes to north Texas if even 10% of the things that others teams are told they should do is done or if one can even pretend that 10% of what other teams are told they should do is done it is world beater time and the giant is awake and the fans are going to pour in in droves and ALL IS WELL!!!!.....until the end of another 4-8 season then it is BRING OUT YOUR DEAD!!!!! and the EASY answer for attendance at north Texas is to have officer EJ raid the evidence locker and bring a few hundred pounds of da kine to da game and pass out free nickel bags to the student sections and the people sitting in the wing and free dime bags to everyone else in the sideline seats...over 18 of course, but two kids gets you an extra dime

I think someone on here stated that Coach Mac doesn't see Thompson as a Division 1 defensive lineman. Then again, we aren't sure how many Division 1 tackles we really have right now. I'm sure it'll be discussed.

Who's throwing out random names? Anyiam came here as a defensive lineman and started at defensive end for the 2008 5A division 1 state champion Allen Eagles. I didn't just throw a random name out.http://dallasnews.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Pr_Key=81785 As for Boutwell and Lincoln, they are much better served on the outside. It will be such a darn shame if Lincoln doesn't get a chance to play on the outside during his career here, because he is a stud. What makes you think our other four defensive tackles are going to be good? I hope they are, but it's not like we, or the coaches, have never seen them play at all. Just not in games.

Think I'm pretty consistent. I said in December that DWI wasn't anything that just about everyone on here had done as a young lad, just as shoplifting was a stupid decision made by youth, so is DWI. I didn't call for either to be kicked off the team. Yes, DWI is worse than shoplifting on my book because you could hurt someone. But theft is a crime of moral terpitude under Texas law, so I guess they both have there drawbacks: http://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc/what-is-a-crime-of-moral-turpitude-texas Point is, I didn't vilify either of parties involved in either of these embarrassing incidents. I know what you are going for here, and believe it or not, I actually agree with you. I think you are taking the wrong tact, though. You should go back and find the posts from Benford defenders that basically called basketball players in good standing, not committing theft or DWI, a bunch of lazy no good malcontents and compare those to the statements about Abby. That is where you true gold lies, grasshopper.

I hate saying this but we should look at TCU to figure how to raise attendance. SMU's highest attended game was when they played TCU. TCU's attendance is almost double UNT's and SMU's. Another thought. The Dallas Mavericks were #2 in attendance this season. http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance How is that possible? I know they are pro team, but this was a season that was basically meaningless very early.

You would think she was a UNT Regent.

We are so lucky to have emmitt...he is kinda Hammarabi, Soloman and Justinian all rolled up into one.

It seems pretty simple...it starts with consistent winning. The atmosphere during a loss is so unpleasant that fans won't be drawn to the stadium unless they're looking forward to the victory celebration. Promotions and bits don't work if the fan leaves with a poor aftertaste based on the on-field performance.

You never answered the question. Why would they be so harsh on jimmerson and Warner and not on abbe? Don't tease us like that.

I give up, you are now repeating what I essentially said to counter my point.

News has gotten much much worse. I'd ask anyone who reads this to please pray for a miracle.

We need some big uglies to show up to walk-on tryouts in the fall as well. I like the idea of Wylie to DLine As of now we have to plan Abbe won't be back.

Pure Greatness...you are on a roll these days CBL. But, could you please get that giant panaroma of a photo off every post you make? getting tired of having to scroll past it everytime...it's great and totally ironic and all that...but seen it...we all have. Could you maybe find a smaller one next time? Just asking.... PLEASE.

Being born in Houston, I don't think MM Park is bad at all. I was there for the opening exhibition at "Enron" and watched Berkman pop a homer to right center. Even bought a brick outside the park. Having said that, I actually prefer the old Dome. I grew up loving that old place as a kid.

I want quality. Potential all league performers. Guys that make the team better. Guys whose names maybe hung in the rafters down the line. I don't think you should go into a recruiting season looking to improve depth. Looking for bodies at particular positions when we have a glaring weakness at the center position. If this team was loaded I can understand filling out a roster spot with a position type of guy. We're not loaded. Despite some talent (yet to be cultivated), we will probably be picked near the bottom of the league next year. We're going to have to step it up (talent wise) to compete with Tulsa, LA Tech, UTEP and others. Sign the best basketball players we can; to sustain the program beyond 2013-14. We're not winning CUSA or playing in any post season tournaments with our current front court guys. Andrew, I just think we need to trust that our guards will return healthy. I have no other reason to believe that they won't be fully rehabilitated having been out almost a full year. Chris Jones came back prior to the tournament. TJ should be fine and Walton seems like he was on schedule. We maybe saying the same thing but I don't see as urgent of a need at guard over a talented big man. Number wise, I understand your point that we should look to the guard position but we have yet to address (in a serious way) the center position, unfortunately. Anyway, just my thoughts.

The timing of this most recent development is a really really cruel twist. About a week ago I was sitting in the Ballpark in Arlington taking in a Rangers game with my buddy Brian... Now we're sitting in a Hospital room in downtown Dallas trying to remain positive. Nothing is concrete yet but prayer, hopes, well wishes, whatever you're inclined to offer would be greatly appreciated right about now. I've already asked for plenty enough financial donations at this point but if you"re nterested in a really neat T-shirt supporting my good Mean Green friend you can find them at the website in the first post of the thread. A large portion of all sales go directly to Brian. http://brianpeytonfund.theneener.net/

Good to hear he's still with us and doing good. Rick

I really wish they would choose something like this and stick with it. I am sick and tired of new looks and rebranding. The interlocking NT is great. When I played we had the eagle on the side of the helmet. Awful... If you think the players don't want something cool looking, exactly like the ones in this thread, then you are dead wrong. Our current uniforms are great but the helmet is unoriginal and boring. The helmet in this thread at perfect, simple, and unique. They should go for something like this and leave it. Just like all the other schools do. You don't see OU, UT, TT, A&M, TCU, SMU, Baylor, ect changing there logos every couple of years. Great job. These uniforms are perfect. Especially the helmet. To bad I doubt they will change anything.

Who here has ever loved our uniforms? Very few have. The biggest change to these mockups is the helmet change, which 95% of our fanbase agrees needs to happen.

agree. i am not for all of the uniform changes but these are great looking. Make it happen.

The Uni's look great. They fit my criteria for a great University uni and/or gear. It's bold, it's clear, it showcases the school colors (except for the black) and it's not too busy......although these do get pretty close to being a bit too busy.

Tell me those unis wouldn't be a great recruiting tool . . . what hotshot recruit wouldn't want to play in them?

He was an Ad Art Major back in the day. Got smart and got out of the biz (unlike some people). He sketched em up and sent the concepts to another buddy who has fancy computer programs. Paid him to create the pics. He has sent them to everyone he can think of in the Ath Dept...and some uni big wig at Nike. Its a combination of dedication and obsession.

I guess the Ath Dept didnt get the memo Click the image of the students on the left side http://www.ntmeangreenfootball.com/facilities.html#

those uniforms would be a great way to enter conf usa . . . .awesome.

These unis look fantastic!!

I don't know that I'd necessarily say that . . . but I will say that these uniforms blow away anything I've ever seen in college football (timeless classics excepted).

The concept is not a total re-branding campaign as well. The SOW is still on the field. North Texas is still embroidered on the front of the jersey. -Not to mention the end zones of our field are black. -so why not incorporate some black in the unis? My .02 cents

It really irritates me that we will never go to a look like this. This is quite possibly the best uniform concept I have seen so far. Why the AD believes that having the letters "NORTH TEXAS" spelled out on the helmet would give us more brand recognition than "NT", just absolutely boggles my mind. Who looks at the helmet to figure out what team is playing? Its displayed on the screen for the entire duration of the game for christ's sake. Usually next to a number that is lower than the other team's number. I also don't understand what the big deal is about having black on the uniform... "But, its not a school color?!!!" Who cares? It looks badass.

I'm glad these are getting a positive response. The credit however goes to my good friend Jim. -He's not on this board, so I posted them. His idea is simple but sound. New conference, new brand. Personally, I like the use of the inter-locking NT on the helmet. I think we're beyond the point where we have to spell out the name of our school on the helmet. I know he has sent these mock ups to the administration. -Not sure how they went over. Hopefully they'll find some traction, I'm sure the kids would enjoy playing in them. GMG

They really are. I absolutely love the Texas on the sleeves.