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The ignorant caricature of JJ and complete diminishment of his accomplishments that has developed here in the 9 months since his departure might be the most pathetic thing to develop from this season.

Have NEVER understood #4. Number 5 is downright funny and typical at the same time. Sadly, not surprising.

Because we are the same program that kept Todd Dodge around for almost a full year after he should have been fired. Because we are the same program that has made questionable hires in all major sports in the last six years. Because this coach promised to improve defense and rebounding. Stated that was his focus on pre-season. This team was horribly inconsistent at both and arguably worse than we were last year. And that was this coach's focus? Please don't focus on shooting this off-season, coach. Fan boards are where people come to talk sports. At UNT, talking sports IS bitching about them, because we have been pretty terrible at everything for a pretty long time. When the one bright light appears to be dark again, at the moment when everyone expected it to shine the brightest, do you honestly expect everyone on this board to stand behind this coach? A coach that would have been gone to a bigger program if he had gotten this team to a sweet 16 berth? That is asking a whole lot, don't you think?

I've got a couple problems with this. You imply that by disliking Benford, that one doesn't support the basketball team. Bullshit. I support UNT, I bleed green, but I will not waste two hours of my busy academic life to watch a joke of a team. A good job with what he had to work with? What the hell are you high on, meth??? Because I can be sober, drunk, or stoned, or some combination of the last two, and still know that Benford failed MISERABLY. Injuries, save for Walton, occurred far too late to be used as an excuse. Inheriting the most talented team in school history is not an excuse to suck. It shouldn't take half a brain to realize that. You also imply that by disliking Benford, one doesn't support RV. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm very anti-Benford and very pro-RV. False argument on your part. You also imply that by disliking Benford, one doesn't appreciate the amazing financial contributions of our donors. Also completely untrue. I'll forever appreciate those contributions and hope that I can one day do the same. But, if I recall...those donations were made before the trainwreck of a season was completely realized. Something tells me that Ernie still supporting Benford has a lot to do with the fact that he made a 7 figure contribution to the Benford led team, and not much to do with Benford's success. Which is fine, everyone should be able to completely understand that. I'd have a hard time dogging on someone who is benefiting from my recent multi-million dollar donation too. Hell, I'd have a hard time dogging on someone who is benifiting from my five dollar donation, because that would imply poor judgment initially on my part (regardless of whether it actually was poor or not), and it's human nature to resist that feeling. Finally, there are a lot more people wanting Benford gone than "15 people on this board". There are more people on this board who want Benford gone than there are people from Texas on this board. And trust me...this place isn't a great representative population of the student body; I learned that when I initially joined the board last summer expecting the demographics to reflect the current student body, which led to a collective opening of my poophole on multiple occasions. That's nothing negative about this board, not at all, just a fact that it doesn't represent the student body at all. And let me tell you, any student who is a fan of the basketball team wants Benford to get the hell away from our fine university as quickly as possible before we're subjected to basketball seasons that rival the football seasons of the 2005-2010 timeframe. The donors, RV, athletic dept., university officials, etc., can deny that Benford is a worthless head coach all they want, but it doesn't change the fact that he is indeed a worthless head coach. Perhaps I'll be fiending enough for basketball by the time next season starts that I'll get sucked into the "We won't suck again!!" hype and go to a couple games. But, if the season started today, I'd have a hard time motivating myself to even check the scores, let alone go to a game.

I'm getting ready to get my haircut and I see a preseason college hoops magazine next to me. It was Lundy's, I believe. Who was their prediction to earn the lone SBC bid for this year? Must be MTSU, right? Or WKU, with all of the history? Or Arkansas-Little Rock with their solid coach? Nope...they somehow believed all these quitters in Denton were going to go to the tournament, since the greatest assistant coach with no head coaching experience ever was now the coach of the Mean Green!! Oh wait...I got that backwards. The most talented team ever assembled in Denton, even with a new coach, should win the SBC behind the great Tony Mitchell. How so many are convinced that this is on the players is beyond me...I'll be willing to be that we won't sniff a prediction of being tourney worthy within the next 10 years.

I think the public criticism is COMPLETELY JUST. We were poised for greatness and, had Johnny been here, we would have attained it. Instead we got probably the worst let-down I've ever experienced as a Mean Green fan. More of a let-down than those wild, lopsided Tulsa/Rice games. But if any of you are thinking that words here will influence Rick to remove Benford, you're mistaken. You can take Fly's info as gospel.

I respect your point of view in this statement above. In truth, I used to routinely avoid making negative comments because of the obvious concerns with impugning one's own alma mater. In the past I did personally email RV as opposed to publicly voicing my concerns. However, in this particular case, I feel that the damage to our basketball program is already so severe that public criticism is necessary--anything really to pressure those with decision-making abilities to see the situation as it actually stands. Also, I think any collateral damage to our athletic department's reputation through public criticism of one particular head coach is moot because we have probably already lost all credibility with potential recruits, new donors, fans, etc. by touting our "greatest team ever" and then turning out to be one of the worst teams in the nation. Praising and supporting the return of the aforementioned head coach would be the ultimate signal of surrender by this athletic department. It would essentially be saying, "We have no standards here. Success really isn't that important to us and probably isn't even attainable, so just sit back and enjoy barely competing at a Division One level." Additionally, as I've said before, I don't think it's fair to Tony Benford to make the guy endure another season or two that will assuredly destroy his coaching career. Maybe it isn't entirely his fault that he didn't succeed this past season. In fact, that's certainly a plausibility. However, I did not see ANY evidence of progress throughout the year. Loss to a Division II team, 0-5 vs. Louisiana-Monroe/Lafayette (four of those losses by double digits, including a blowout in the first round of the SBC tournament). We were 3-14 against Division I teams with a better than 200 RPI. We didn't just fail to achieve our goals this season; we failed about as badly as it is possible to fail in almost every way imaginable, and we concluded the campaign by being obliterated by a team with a 221 RPI. And, if you look at when the losses occurred, there really isn't any realistic way to blame the injuries. So, please, can anyone honestly say that we are headed in the right direction? I mean, next year could be better (It will mostly likely be far, far worse once we lose an NBA quality player), but why should we settle for just better than terrible when we never should have been in a rebuilding process in the first place? I don't doubt that Coach Benford and his staff will do everything within their abilities "to make this program into something special." Based on the evidence I saw this past season, however, he and his staff do not have the ability to succeed at this university. If he had a record of success as a head coach elsewhere, then I would give him more time, but such a line does not exist on his resume. I REALLY hope that I'm wrong. It's possible. But it's also possible, given our history, that we will dedicate ourselves to the ideas of "hope," "next year," "potential," and "some day"...and all of this will end up sinking our basketball program to the bottom dregs of Division One. We're almost there already (RPI of 255), and another year under the same leadership and without Tony Mitchell could drop us into the 300s. If that happens, the best case scenario would be that we would then hire an amazing coach who over the course of the next 5 or 6 years would try to mend our ailing recruiting pipelines and maybe, with a lot of luck, get us to a winning record in CUSA within the next decade. Sound extreme? Take a look at football: The MAJORITY of Division One teams make a bowl game each year, and we haven't been to one in eight years. Again, I REALLY hope that I'm wrong. I'm not privy to any inside information, and if there are crucial details that I don't know that are causing me to speak out of turn, then I apologize. I'm also open to alternative opinions, and if anyone can explain to me what about this season suggests future success, I'm willing to listen. To say, "what's the harm in giving it one more year?" is a mistake, I believe, in this case. First, another horrible year would COMPLETELY erase any success we had under JJ, assuming we haven't already squandered all our reputation points from two relatively recent NCAA tournament appearances and several consecutive 20-win seasons. Second, I don't see the logic in continuing something that is almost certain to fail, at great cost, just because it could theoretically, by some miracle, work. By that rationale, why ever fire anyone? I mean, there's always a chance that any given coach will suddenly "get it" and figure out how to win. One season is not a large sample size, but it was probably the best opportunity we could have given a new head coach: returning NBA first-round draft pick caliber player, pretty much all the starters returning, regular finishes in the conference championship game, preseason rankings somewhere in the vicinity of 25-75 (some higher). If he couldn't succeed under those circumstances, then why will it work next year? Many mid-major coaches go their whole careers without having a Tony Mitchell. We could give Benford 30 more years, and he would likely not have that much talent to work with again. So, even if he tremendously improves as a coach, that might still only get us back to the same record we had this season. This isn't about "hatred." I have nothing personally against Benford, RV, or anyone else in the athletic department. In fact, I'm quite sure they are all good, decent people. I just don't want to see another 5,6,7,8, or more years go by with our athletic program having been rendered completely irrelevant even in our own state. What if we continue to finish below .500 in football? What if basketball becomes the perennial cellar dweller of CUSA? We will lose SO many thousands of alumni who will come and go without having a single iota of pride in UNT athletics. That means that we will suffer mightily on the fundraising front long after the current leaders of our school and athletic department have retired or otherwise moved on. We stand to lose so much respect in the eyes of recruits, high school coaches, donors, alumni, students, and college basketball fans in general if we accept the results of this season with anything other than outrage.

Did you say schweddy balls?

It ought to be. Otherwise, what would be the incentive to fly to El Paso.

Seems crazy, right?

You acknowledge this staff is a complete failure (yes,after one season) then go on to say they know what is going to happen if they fail. I think that's the issue some are driving at here. They know nothing is going to happen until after half (or more) of the fan base is driven off after three or four years of this. They know their jobs are safe, even after they squandered the best chance for UNT to become relevant in a major sport in a very long time. Just wait until next season (for failure to be punished). Trouble is it could well be another season after that or the one after that. As much as people bitch about bitching and it hurting recruiting how the hell does that come anywhere close to getting beat down by ULM (twice!) and losing to a DII school. Top notch players will want to come here and be associated with that? Top notch players will see how Tony Mitchell's draft stock dropped (or least failed to improve). That's far worse than someone seeing a negative post on a message board.

Since we are North Texas after all, we really shouldn't trivialize a win over a top 25 team in anything, whether it be golf or under water basket weaving.

Come to think of it, we must give old JC credit for the move to Division 1 and the Missouri Valley. It wasn't the SWC and we had no real rivals, but it was one of the best basketball conference a very good football conference and it distanced us from the small Texas school category. Those games in the old pit were so much fun and we got to see great players. Incidentally, I believe the MVC is the oldest athletic conference in the United States.

Strange. From what I was told by a mom close to the program JJ didn't just "let things slide" as some are so quick to assert.

People really need to open their eyes about the Petersen hire. By many accounts, he was fixing to be fired by Wake Forest, and WF sure as hell didn't put a lot of effort into keeping him or else he would still be there. His body of work is really not that impressive and is right around .500, which is better than McCarney though...He won less games than KA with more talent. I don't dislike Petersen and like how involved he is in the games, but can we please stop acting like we went into Winston-Salem (or wherever the heck WF is) and strong armed a gem of a coach away from them. Reality sucks sometimes. There were so, so many options other than Petersen that we could have picked up who had records of overwhelming success. Matt Daniel at Central Arkansas probably the most no-brainer of them. Oh well, I'll keep the faith.

If he thinks Benford did a good job with what he had this year, then surely he thinks JJ is John Wooden.

I think judging Rick must be a weighted process. You must consider all of the facilities (yes, he deserves credit for Apogee, and yes, I'm aware of Flyer's efforts and grassroots movements to influence the student vote). Rick's certainly in the black here. But this is only a part of his job. If all of the coaching hires were weighted the same, Rick would be in the black here as well. He's made some fantastic hires in the olympic sports. But there are 3 sports that will weigh a little more than the others (baseball will join this group when it's up and running): FB, MBB, WBB. Football should probably be weighted at 40% of all coaching hires, that's how important it is, and Dodge was a failure. McCarney is muddling, but he's got his guys in here now. This should be his last shot. Anything less than 5 wins this year is unacceptable and he will be a failure too. We'll know the answer to this in 9 months. But so far, Rick's FB hires are not good overall. Didn't he extend Dickey once before firing him? At least Dickey was winning... Rick's in the red here. Women's basketball - 10% weight - has been a failure for a while. Slinker was not good and Stephens was downright horrible. It looks like we have some good players here now, and a coach with skins, but Peterson definitely grades an "I" right now. Rick's in the Red here. Men's b-ball - 20% weight - Benford can maybe turn it around?? The only glimmer of hope I have in this is how Jordan Williams' play improved during the year. He and his staff must be doing at least one thing right. The rest is a freaking let-down of epic proportions. Rick gets credit for hiring and extending JJ more times than hiring Benford, but if Benford is left to continue deconstructing what JJ built, his bad hire will weigh more than JJ's extensions. Rick's in the black here (for now). That leaves 30% of the weight to be carried by the likes of Golf, Soccer, Swimming/Diving, Track, Softball, Volleyball, & Tennis. Rick's definitely in the black here. He has a balanced ledger in coaching hires. But if both McCarney and Benford fail, he'll be in the red here. Lastly, there's the task of raising funds. It appears that Rick has made some new friends recently since we're supposedly extremely close to announcing baseball, we're upgrading the Pit and all kinds of other things thanks to donors. Mean Green club memberships are up, right? Season ticket sales are up across the board right? Rick's in the black here. I think, overall, Rick is doing a good job for us, and as some of you mentioned, he cares for UNT. His mistakes are glaring though because they affect the 3 big sports.

Can he hit a 3?

It's pretty remarkable that we spent so long and finally got to the point where we actually were giddy about the upcoming season and we had this past season.

I've always wanted to see a game at Hattiesburg, Mississippi. It's a long way. 526 miles according to yahooMaps. I've never been there but I'm hoping they have something akin to the game day experience found at Ole Miss or Mississippi State. Southern Miss had a terrible season last year. Their "Anyone, anyplace" mantra caught up to them last season. I hope we can catch them while they are having a "non-Southern Miss" like season. GO MEAN GREEN

You know, Middle is really good. They'll get an NIT invite and I bet they do well there. I think we would have won the belt with Johnny here, yes. With Walton/Holmen/Patton out and CJ hurt for a while, it would have been more difficult than anticipated, and we may not have ended the season with a better conference record than 1-loss MT, but JJ's teams ALWAYS overachieved in the SBC tourney. But, alas, it didn't turn out that way.

I would be in favor of restructuring RV's compensation so that it is tied directly to the number of football and basketball wins.

You think if Johnny were here we would have won the belt? We might have reached 20 wins but I am not sure about winning the belt... Honestly middle should have won it. But hey at least they were not just getting money to be dumped back into the belt.... Assuming they do not get a bid now.

I don't get the argument at all. NT just competed the most disappointing season in any major sport and some are comparing the coach of that debacle with JJ. I think based on what Benford had on the team, he coached the worse season performance I have seen in my over 4 decades of following the Green. Some mention, Trilli but it is not even close based on the small Benford sample. Trilli and/or Helwig had the scheme to only play the best. Trilli's first year was not bad, that team played very hard but just didn't have the talent (no Trilli recruits), Trilli in my mind did the lowest thing of any NT coach, when he didn't renew most of his first teams' scholarships. He than attempted to play a nightmare schedule with most oc on the road with a team of primarily freshmen with a few transfers. Those first two years, with Trilli recruits; NT was clobbered despite having some good young talent. Then about year four of Trilli ball, no one wanted to play for him and his losing program and the wheels came completely off. I mention Trilli for a few reasons, one he never had anywhere close to the talent that Benford inherited. He also began play in a stronger conference than the Belt. Also I think Trilli for all his problems, was a better game time coach than Benford. However, the biggest harbinger to me is that after Trilli a renowned recruiter after a couple of bad seasons; could not give away scholarships. I think after this year, Benford like Trilli is going to find it tough to recruit against anyone. Can Benford turn it around, IMO the odds are heavily against him after a horrible start. Whether the players love or hate him, I don't see many having any confidence in his program. Likewise, I don't see many out there with options, wanting to jump abroad the Benford train.

I'm really excited to see what chancellor can do this year if Berglund is good.

Offered by Tulsa

I can see why Brock is getting so much attention, but with out a supporting cast I wouldn't get my hopes up too high. we need need some receivers to step and our d needs to get to the qb more if we plan on winning 6 games. Not to metion not fetting burned on the long ball wouldn't hurt.

Upon further review... Unfortunately, the old man's eyesight is getting poorer. I got off one line on a statistic and it affected Tulsa. I would now have to move them ahead of North Texas and into second in the West. It improved their offensive numbers to top ours by a little. (Now, if Berglund, Pegram, Terrell, et al can improve our offensive numbers then I believe that we can finish 1st or 2nd in the division). So, for the time being, I have to revise my standings in the West to 1) Rice 2) Tulsa and 3) North Texas.

There was a time when it was a short walk to tequila and girls, but now it's pretty much just a bullet to the head.

Sure. But the thread title is called, "Why I'm Excited For Next Season 2013", not "Why to bet your House Note on Next Season 2013".

Yep...about as crazy as the many folks who were not big JJ fans in the past now claiming he was the second coming of Jesus Christ in a BB suit. Big stretch to say anyone is knocking what JJ did here, but so many are trying to hold the guy up for sainthood that it is as funny (?) as folks claim the opposite is on here. JJ did great things for this program, but I also recall seeing many of the same "let's anoint him for sainthood" folks once saying stuff like "good coach, but can't seem to get us past the first round", and other such nonsense. Nonsense is nonsense...no matter what reason one ascribes to regarding the recently concluded season. The "hyperbole and ignorance" certainly flows from both camps.

Wait, let me get this straight. . . . You are suggesting that people are less appreciative of J.J. after this past year?

The point is these charters do not have the same regulations as regular public schools. The kids do not have the same curriculum to follow. It is an unfair advantage. Do some research on this. I know kids move for athletic purposes in all schools, but they it is not the same. These charters do not follow the same rules. You honestly do not know what you are talking about. Ask any administrator.

I read the article also, and the first thing that jumped out at me when I did was this qoute in the first paragraph. Yeah, grads are having a hard time finding jobs.....except for the grads who come from wealth, prestige and endless connections. Those grads seem to always have a job waiting for them. It's rarely what you know, but WHO you know. But the problem for the UNT Dallas campus is THOSE grads rarely attend the "AFFORDABLE" Law School down the street. With that said, for once, I gotta agree with Check-Facts here. The answer to the original question is: NO!!!! Rick

Triple A (Focus Academy) was created a number of years before they had a sports program. Initially K1-3rd/4th grade. Athletics IS very much a focus of the school as it is with most schools. Just because Allen High or Duncanville ("City of Champions") don't tout that on their site doesn't mean sports is not a focus. Mumford High isn't any different than Allen, Duncanville or smaller communities around the state. They all throw excessive money into their sports programs with the goal to be the best. Like Triple A, and others, they bend the rules to their advantage with the best of them. I've heard a great number of stories over the years about what goes on in the smaller towns. The emphasis on winning is just as great as it is in metropolitan areas. Yes, I do feel that places like Mumford have a competitive advantage. (Not so much in basketball but in all other sports) So I guess what I am reading is that, although these small schools cheat, the UIL should keep them separate from the big city cheaters. (Though enrollment numbers are the same or smaller) Due to the close proximity of kids in urban areas, there is more movement between schools annually. Per capita, probably more in rural communities. When Mumford, and others, point their finger at a school like Triple A, there are always three pointing right back at them. Good discussion. I'm done on this one http://www.rockdalereporter.com/news/2009-07-23/sports/057.html

Not a strong field, but NT dominated. Good win over number 15 LSU.

I'm of two minds on this topic: first, I don't think anyone, least of all the UNT System, needs to be pouring money into opening a law school. We have a historic glut of lawyers at the present time, and I feel that it is an inefficient allocation of scarce resources to invest in opening a law school. We already have a legal education system on our hands that has drastically overproduced lawyers; even if UNT Dallas Law School does it differently, we will still be spending money to educate people who will graduate into a historic glut. I simply don't think that's a wise investment for the UNT System. In my opinion, opening a law school is part of the system-wide push to get serious about alumni engagement and about building an alumni base that will support the university with gifts and donations. To really get serious about that, historically, you need to produce a lot potential high wage earners, which means lots of MBAs, M.D.s, and J.D.s. Produce lots of them, hope a handful make it big, and hope that you'll find a Joe Jamail somewhere in the pile. That's the historic model; whether or not the J.D. plank of that model holds true anymore is anyone's guess. Second, you have hit upon something very important here, Harry. It's not just the law school that is going about doing things in a different way; my impression from here inside UNT in Denton is that we're all starting to re-orient ourselves in a different way. From talking with people higher up the food chain than myself and from hearing and reading lots of inside baseball stuff, I would characterize what's going on here like this: We're not going to compete with the UTs and the A&Ms of the state, but the territory we do want to stake out is that we're a competitive third best option in the state, shoulder-to-shoulder with UH. UH has the Houston metro area; we want to stake out the D/FW metro area. We're not going to hang our hats on National Merit Scholars or how many top tier HS students we recruit; we want to be the school of first choice for the second tier HS students and for the hard cases, first-in-the-family students and single parents and whatnot. We're not going to try to be something we can't; we're going to try to be the best that we can be, which is to say the dominant public higher education and post-graduate professional education (M.D.s and J.D.s) destination in the Metroplex. I wasn't on board with this plan when I first got the idea that this was our future. You know something, though? We're in the biggest period of disruption for higher education right now that we've ever faced since the first public universities opened. I think cutting state support for public education, including public higher education, is buying our towns, cities, and state a delayed disaster, but continuing declining support is the reality. Our support levels aren't going to go back up, so we have to figure out how to make the most out of what we have and how to fund what we are currently doing and all we want to do in the future. Being realistic about our future student base, getting them Mean Green'd while they are here, getting them graduated with non-soul-crushing levels of debt and the skills and education they need for good jobs and productive citizenship is the plan. Happy, engaged alumni then give to their alma mater, we lasso enough grant money to keep research hopping, and everyone rides off into the sunset. At least that's my opinion of where we're headed.

I only hope the title of this thread is short term applicable, not long term applicable.

The biggest reason to be excited for 2013... There has been one more year under Frank Wintrich. He is quite possibly the biggest and best thing to happen to Mean Green coaching. Our players are growing more "elite" if you will under his coaching. When he started the conditioning program basically had two tiers of players. Each season, through his program, those tiers have elevated by one. So now we have something like 5/6 tiers. Those guys at the top tier are near NFL caliber in their strength and conditioning. (And another reason why RS is so important.) It is shocking to think that prior to Dodge we never had a dedicated S&C coach for football. (Not knocking Sekora(sp) but trying to train 100 FB players as well as every other sport is an impossible task.) About the only bright spot on the Dodge resume was that he got a dedicated S&C in here. (Albeit one whose program destroyed players feet...but it was a start.) You should all seriously consider thanking the god of your choosing each night for Frank Wintrich being here.

Cause your the authority on listening to both sides... Lol

John Wooden? If he thinks Benford did a good job, then he must think JJ is Jesus Christ himself.

Don't get me wrong, I do take pride in our successes in sports like soccer, etc. But . . . how many Bubas Cups have we won since joining the Sun Belt?

I think it is really funny how some folks here give ZERO credit to RV for the great new Apogee Stadium. If you were even part way or somewhat connected to UNT in some way you would know how much and for how many years RV was working on that stadium. It takes a lot of different folks and a good bit of luck as well to make something like this happen. To discount any part of the situation or anyone who had a hand in its development just reeks of a personal agenda and a complete lack of understanding and knowledge about how this whole thing took place. Apogee sits as UNT's stadium due the the hard work of many people...all of whom every fan of the Mean Green Nation owe a good bit of gratitude and thanks.

So you think a loaded basketball charter school should be applauded for beating a legitimate class A team. Nothing against the kids playing, but their inclusion in class A is a joke. I doubt the fans were booing the players but the insane situation of an undefeated legit Class A team having to play a team filled with athletes the average class A team won't get in a century. If I were a Mumford fan, I would be plenty upset.

Not to make this a football discussion on the basketball board, but how does a coach who is 29 games UNDER .500 when he is hired have "real success elsewhere?"

RV definitely does, in fact, care. But just because he cares doesn't mean he makes good hires. I do think McCarney will be our answer for football, RV hired someone with real success elsewhere. He didn't do this with Benford. And this should be RV's end. Hopefully a new President will demand success from RV or move on. RV has been great for us, but we've moved on. He got us the stadium, got us to CUSA, hired Johnny Jones, got baseball going, basketball practice facility and Super Pit upgrades, and got us McCarney. Inversely, he hired Shanice, Benford, etc.

Cue the non-revenue sports hire statistics.

RV's last 6 FB/BB hires are a combined 78 - 173

Just thanks.

I need to go badger Marcus Trice on twitter to get this kid to transfer here!