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I will return to the basketball forum when the basketball team returns to basketball.

Mean Green Fans Psychiatric Helpline - $ .50 cents Breach of contract? No, you did not sign any such contract. False advertising? What's false about it? Going into the season we had the most talent in UNT history. Players that is. Can I recoup for mental anguish? No. The fact that you have been a UNT follower for so long suggests that you have accepted mental anguish as part of the Mean Green fan package.

If I am the Big 12, I would drop that immediately. If the Big East thinks it is a good idea, it must not be.

It just goes to show you the luck of North Texas. We are unfortunate enough to have the "most talented North Texas team in history" the exact same year that Alabama Huntsville and the entire Sunbelt Conference have their most talented teams in their history...

Official? Does it matter at all if it's official or not? If it's a good quality shirt with a logo I like, I don't care if the administration, AD, or LJ don't like it, they can all kiss my arse. When I hear "the AD is working on it" I feel the same way as when I hear "Congress is working on it".

Good points Kram, some folks are making a failing effort to emulate those they idolize.. It does not help Karen's situation that the No. 1 team in the land plays just up the road from Austin, but this is Griner's last year. It is never easy in Austin when Baylor is winning in any sport while TX struggles. And FWIW, UT did not fire the last coach nor was she going to be fired at the end of the season last year. Sure, she was going to have to win this season or else. Karen has lost 3 players for the season to injury, including her best player, and is playing a lot of freshmen. One thing to remember its not just Karen we are pulling for, but one of our former players in UNT Hall of Fame member Jaylee Mitchell as well.

It it fits your agenda to say so...fine with me. Lots of parallels and I have a nephew who is a big time UT booster...the info I have comes from his "inside sources". I have tried hard to tell him to pass the word to back off and let Aston have a couple of years before they go bonkers. I am convinced that she will do great in Austin...given time...but so far quite a few of the burnt orange faithful that actually follow women's BB are more than a little unhappy with to date results. And, so far, the AD and staff are backing Aston as are several other boosters who are close to the situation. Like I said...quite a few parallels, but it';s OK if you don't want to see them. But, since we were talking about other programs thought I'd mention how things are going in Austin with another of our ex-head coaches who took their "dream job". It is a thread dedicated to trying to make folks see how well our other coaches are doing as opposed to our current one, right?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Hard to please some folks. So, you do what you think is the best thing to do. Seems to work that way. This looks like a good idea, and worth a shot. UNT is not the first, nor will it be the last to give this a shot. Here's hoping this is a big time success, and I hope I get a call. Would be interesting to me to see the approach used.

ACU will go Division I this season, joining FCS's Southland Conference. We've already pooh-poohed UTSA, only to see them join us in the C-USunBelt with only two seasons under their belts. Why not Abilene Christian in another year or so? They've got well-heeled alumni that are starting to throw cash at their athletic department. During the Dodge era, some who suggested we hire Chris Thomsen away from ACU were pooh-poohed. Well, Chris moved on to Texas Tech and led the Red Raiders to a bowl victory as interim head coach last season, and has since gone on to join the Arizona State coaching staff. Meanwhile, ACU ups the ante, jumping to FCS-level. And, because the topic is ripe, they are going in with a new logo: http://blogs.acu.edu/acutoday/2013/02/15/after-16-years-there%E2%80%99s-a-new-cat-in-town/ They hired a real, big boy marketing firm to do it. In Abilene, more than 100 student-athletes, coaches, faculty, staff, alumni, donors and other fans were part of focus groups that reviewed early designs, then helped refine them. Seven different wildcats were developed along the way, with one chosen to represent ACU’s 16 intercollegiate athletics teams as they prepare to begin play in NCAA Division I and the Southland Conference this August. I seem to recall someone here calling to get alumni involved in the process of getting us a big boy logo. Crazy, no?

Every time this comes up I have to remind people that UNT was the original choice of the administration back in 61. Some UT graduates either in the House or Senate took offense at our proposed name change, and threatened to filibuster the bill as written. NTSU was the compromise name.......but again, not our (1961) administrators' preference.

My 8 win prediction looks to be in jeopardy. And not in a good way.

Next year is going to be epic.

Y'all's negativity makes me not want to be a NT fan. Seriously. Good lord. The amount of anger towards our university on here is just mindboggling. Some of y'all think we're UT. My response? Think you can do it better? Get your ass in the AD office. Our merch is improving tremendously now that Nike is on board, I see plenty of good looking NT gear and now we have an off campus apparel store. What exactly do you expect? If we had a half decent football or basketball team to put on the field, thus helping stuff sell better we'd have plenty of better apparel. I have some sweet shirts that are unique to us and aren't generic from Nike. They're doing a fine job. And don't give me crap about 2001-2004. The SBC might as well have been FCS still and we played in Fouts. If we pull 18K after a decade, no, 100 years of terrible football and have plenty of cool Nike gear and good apparel sales now, we'll explode if, god forbid, we go 7-5 one freaking year. You guys are literally a beat down and it wouldn't surprise me if the anger and apathy on here cost us recruits. Whether you believe it or not, they read this stuff and this board already has a bad rap among fans. I don't care what you give yearly or how much you pay or what goodwill you spread or how much you talk up UNT, y'all's attitude is something of a vitriolic hatred and it is purely maddening. I've been on many boards and there's a difference between being so passionate you're harsh on your team/school and just being a-holes. Y'all are just being a-holes. BTW, the SOW is fantastic, it's catching on and everybody loves it. It is timeless and needs to be our logo permanently. Needs to be on our helmets as well. Not a generic interlocking NT.

Yes, folks, THOR is back in the game!!!!! Great news! Welcome back, THOR!!!!!

Was Karen Aston really that successful here? She had one season and a 15-16 record. Compared to her predecessor, that was great, but I don't know that UT really hired a proven successful coach. Could she have been more successful here? We will never know, but I don't think that her record here was enough to declare her time here a great run.

Forget about preseason polls. The same group of guys were Sun Belt finalists last year. I'm not going to do the digging on roster turnover because I think you're determined right or wrong to stand by your opinion, but Aston's team was 3rd-to-last in the Big XII last year. They lost to TTech in the first round of the B12 tourney. I respect your ability to stay positive (to the point of stubbornness) on all things Mean Green, but you are going to be hard pressed to find a better example of first-to-worst journey than this season with Benford. We still have some postseason to play, but I don't think Benford turns this ship around in time. Here's hoping I'm wrong.

Wrong...UT did not fire the coach prior to Aston. But, thanks for playing! Ha! :-)

My prediction? IF any of these kids come here the line will stretch around the corner to tell everyone how many stars Rivals gave them coming out of high school.

Maybe the new CB coach has some info on these 3 guys since he was there this past year.

The UT women weren't a consensus pick to win the Big 12. Their athletic department didn't advertise the team as "the most talented in UT history." Apples and frieght trains

Really? Well TSSM averaged 18,944 in attendance for football during the 2012 season. We averaged 19,067 in our 2nd year (2012) at Apogee, and we have yet to sell it out. So, we averaged 123 more people in attendance for 2012. In 2011, with a new stadium, new coach, plus games against Houston, and Big Ten Indiana we averaged 18,864. My point is that we should not be looking down our nose at anybody.

A solid home opener that year vs Rice drew 21,000+ followed by 17K for the next home game (which btw followed a road win) then 3 sub 15,000 crowds..... 21,900 for the last game vs KState game certainly helped but I think our annual 5,000 in attendance would have happened for the last game had it been anyone but a big 12 team.... replace 2 of the home games with Rice and KState in 2004 and I think you see a difference in attendance. All that doesn't matter now since we have the stadium.... As for attendance, winning in fouts = losing in apogee We've never seen winning in apogee. When we do, I guess we can come on here and talk about how great our marketing department is because our attendance will reflect it. When Monroe had the huge weeknight crowd last year on TV.....what was their marketing team doing that ours wasn't? I would argue nothing. They're marketing department was how much coverage they got on ESPN because they beat Arkansas. Then it became "cool" to go to the game and talk about ULA Monroe. Just like it's "cool" to wear Ranger gear now. With our current set up, (facilities, funding, etc.) when we win, UNT will be "cool"

Quit fooling yourself 90, you know, and we all know you're on the bandwagon (or you wouldn't care like you do, and you definitely wouldn't be posting on this forum), you're just suffering like the rest of us with the hemorrhoids that the bumpy ride has given you.

You'd be surprised. They currently have 4 alumni in the NFL right now. That's more than us.

Does the fraternity you are member of own the land the house is sitting on?

I'd be good with these throw-backs too.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Simple Simon's Over-Simplified Plan Says: Out of 36,000 UNT Students can we get...............................................................................................................................8,000 fans? Out of 110,000 Denton citizens can we get...........................................................................................................................4,000 fans? Out of another 600,000 plus Denton County'ites most living within 30-35 minutes from Apogee can we get.....................10,000 mostly new fans? Out of over 200,000 UNT alum in DFW can we get.............................................................................................................10,000 mostly new fans many of whom never attended Mean Green games as UNT students? For the Eagle Wing Section for Familys of 4, free pizza, cola etc, can we get.......................................................................3,000 fans? ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ The above totals 35,000 fans for Game Day at Apogee Stadium which would mean Standing Room Only which would probably pi$$ off the Denton Fire Marshall............so be it. Might shooting for goals from all our various UNT constituencies such as those listed above at least be a worthy beginning point for a marketing program which has goals of producing many more new fans instead of the same old familiar faces and continued average crowds of 16-18,000 in a 31,000 seat football palace like Apogee Stadium? CUSA membership and what we will witness (and be more than duly impressed) with many of our new conference-mates who have "lights out" marketing programs that sells many tickets (with waiting lists for future sales) will ultimately be the judge and jury for what we've been doing at North Texas--even at a Sun Belt Conference level the last 10 or so years. Hope we have one helluva' turnaound year in all aspects of our athletic program of whom I think many running the show are truly nice folk, but some of us also remember what ex MLB player/manager Leo Durocher once said about nice guys, too, now don't we? GMG! Of course I never saw Leo "D" play baseball, but I did witness him as manager in the Astrodome back in the day.

I give up. EVERYONE will pass us by and leave us in the dust. Look out for East Texas Baptist in Marshall.

If there are far more UNT alumni in Dallas than there are in Denton then any ticket sale increase should target that alumni base. Of course, I believe at least half of those fans have told me personally through the years that they wouldn't get on I-35 at night if they did not have to for anything short of the second coming. I have said it before, but that is where the "A" Train can make a big difference. (I-35 is only going to get worse in the next few years.}

"We have...issues" 5-7 4-8

Okay . . . back up one year to 2009. A ton of losing, yet we averaged over 3000 more than in 2004. And that was after a monsoon washed away a huge predicted attendance for the home opener against Ohio. My only point here is that there's more to getting people in the stands than winning.

Like BYU?

This doesn't have anything to do with anything you are talking about. This has nothing to do with anything like paying the countries bills or any other problem our government is dealing/ notdealing with, not everything ties into the, "America is a sinking ship" narrative people love to talk about. I do think you are right though, it's not that big of a deal. The guy is gay, so what, that's how we SHOULD look at it. It should not be a big deal in this day and age if a person is gay or straight, why should we care. He's just another retired player that came out after he walked away, nothing groundbreaking.

UT fired their last coach because they weren't winning (enough). I agree that they will be happy they gave Aston some time, but (mean)green apples to (burnt)oranges.

Because he'd fit right in?

This is what troubles me about the Benford hire. I understood that RV would only consider head coaches with previous head coach experience. It seems to me that we (the collective "we") get into more trouble when we don't obey our own rules. Maybe this will work out. GO MEAN GREEN

And, meanwhile down in Austin, Texas...... Really sorry to see some UT folks calling for Aston's head after a 2 win conference record to date and some pretty bad losses. Just shows what can happen to good coaches in new situations...seems UT did exactly what Dozer is suggesting...a proven winner at a lower level...yet, this season is not turning out so great...as yet! If the folks in Austin will give her some time, they will be happy they did.

MGT, you might be surprised. I'm not into one way relationships. If I wasn't tied down by Club seats, there is a very good chance that I would walk away. By walk away, I mean leave the MGC and just attend the football and basketball games I wanted to attend, buying tickets at the door (because they are ALWAYS available). I would still attend some games, as I have some very good tailgating friends. Fortunatey or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it, I do have the club seats and a neice attending UNT that will someday, hopefully, want said seats (she is a girl, after all, and really not that into athletics, so who knows). Again, not into one way relationships. It's kinda unhealthy. If UNT doesn't care about their athletics programs, why should I?

I had a roommate who came to UNT for grad school, and he did his undergrad at ACU. But that's irrelevant...anyway...isn't Abilene in between the Metroplex and Lubbock? Moving to FCS gives them a shot at money games with FBS teams, and fairly close regional game opportunities, with us, TCU, SMU, Tech, UTEP...with their attendance being double their student population, they obviously have a pretty solid base of supporters/alumni and a $1-2 million a year from paycheck games won't hurt. Sounds like they are doing some smart work. And don't discount the curfew and church thing...there are quite a few families who will lean hard on their kids to take an offer at a place like that.

They will pass us by with a CUSA title in 2076.

Please stop with the paranoia … it will destroy you!!!! All the credit in the world to UTSA, but if their not in one of the largest cities in the country – THAT HAS NO FBS FOOTBALL PROGRAMS at the time they started they would of never made the moves they have made as fast as they did. Abilene is NOT San Antonio

Actual input and decision making from the fan base at ACU on their new logo. Can't do that at UNT.

NIKE

If those season ticket sales numbers are correct, I agree with you. But it does beg the question, what have we been doing?

We don't need him to be Johnny Football, we just need him to be a significant improvement over Thompson, which should not be that difficult to do. Berglund has the pieces around him too. Thompson had all day to throw last year behind that line, which I think was the most inexcusable part of his performance last year. People tried to justify DT's play by saying he had no weapons, but he had all day to throw and still missed the receivers by ridiculous margins at times. But yes, you are right that the coaches, mainly Mac, have little to no confidence in DT so it would be shocking if Berglund was not named the starter.

While we're at this, can we get the folks ordering shirts for the bookstore/team store to sell this shirt but with an actual sport in place of "Athletics"?

Have you ever heard of Ole Miss being referred to as anything other than Ole Miss? That's the point. They do not wish to be The University of Mississippi. They want to be Ole Miss so that is what they put forward. RV wants the world to know us as North Texas, followed by Mean Green and lastly Eagles which is how it is put forward. Many on this board suffer from the "Curse of Knoweledge" We know who we are so it clouds how we think the world should see us. The casual college football fan though really has no clue. One key to effective branding is repetition and frequency. If a person flips on the TV in the middle of a play and sees the ball about to be snapped they will see "North Texas" on the helmet. It is an instant get. They dont have to ask anyone in the room. And they see that play after play after play. Put the SOW or interlocking NT and they wont know until an announcer says it or they look to the score (if it is on screen.) Bash him all you want but from a branding perspective (introduction/education to/of the consumer) RV is doing it the right way. Especially considering we've never had any helmet design last more than 6-7 years in our Div 1/FBS history.

I voted SOW only because there was no windmill option.