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Okay. I was just trying to get you to clarify so I don't put pieces together here, but you from what I can gather, the lack of donations from alumni has led us to hire sub par leadership. If you can agree, then, that leadership is sub par, will you please remove your **** from their *****, stop blaming 12 guys that can't even buy beer yet and quit blaming the rest of us for not throwing more money into a program that already does not use our contributions responsibly? You have gone from blaming players, to blaming the only people that keep this thing floating to begin with. Stop. I work in manufacturing and if things are not going well, should I blame the guys on the floor that work to make 40 hours or should I blame my investors or should I figure out a way to responsibly use what I have to give those investors a return on their investment? If I do the latter option, my investors will be more willing to put more into the company. Pretty simple, isn't it?

I know this isn't popular opinion but even as a MGC member and season ticket holder, I don't buy the "you have to donate to criticize" or if you don't donate you're part of the problem, not part of the solution. The coaches and AD get paid good money to do a job and a public job at that. They know what they are getting into and criticism, especially well-deserved criticism goes with the territory. Every program has a larger percentage of fans who don't donate a single penny to the program. How come for us it is such a crutch? You think Northern Illinios has dough rolling into their program? Look at their record the past 10 years. I'm afraid to look it up but are we the worst football team the last eight years? Even Idaho went to a bowl game. I'm not even talking about competing with the big boys of the collegiate football world, I'm talking about competing in the frickin Sun Belt. Is anybody really going to tell me that the reason we've had 8 non-winning seasons in the Sun Belt is because of money? Or because we don't have enough donors? Somebody isn't allowed to complain about losing because they don't donate? I'm about the most reasonable fan going. I'm not a fan so I can have bragging rights over other people. I don't live or die by the actions of 18-22 year olds on a playing field. I'm a fan mostly because I love North Texas, have some great friends who I can hang out with at the game, and love college football. But even with being level headed, it's still competition and the point of the game is to win. And to watch year after year of bad football and then someone try to tell me the reason is money is just horseshit. Most Sun Belt schools don't have a pot to piss in and yet continually whip our ass. You think ULM and ASU or FIU are beating us because of money?? Hate to tell you this but you and I are neither part of the problem nor part of the solution. Unless you want to start giving T Boone level of money we are just nice little donors who get to see our names in the program. At the end of the day it's the Athletic Departments job to get more MGC members. I've been a fan for almost 20 years and in that 20 years I've done more than my part to get people involved. Time for the AD to do his. Only in the myopic world of message boards is "i think we can, i think we can", a strategy for success. And lastly, to say that the football program is turning around after a 4-8 season and all the holes we have is absolutely ridiculous. And that's from a guy who has been on board with Mac from the beginning.

Bingo

I disagree. Every program has moments of tough luck, but unlike us, they don't blame their failures on them.

What we are saying is that this ain't the rosy picture you are painting around here, either. It ain't Trilli and Dodge levels, but McCarney and Benford aren't exactly making us feel a ton better. I am on record as saying that I'm a big Coach Mac fan and believe, like you, that he will turn it around this year, too. But, the fact remains that the $$$ sports at UNT are performing at a below acceptable level right now. The AD should have to answer for this. No one I have ever met nor any sane poster I have read on this forum believes we should be going to the Rose Bowl or to the Final Four ever. But we do expect that we SHOULD be able to compete with other SBC/CUSA schools in football and basketball. We SHOULD expect to have teams that compete for conference championships. I don't expect us to be close when we play at LSU, Alabama, Oklahoma, Texas, Georgia, etc...in football. Similarly, I don't expect us to beat a Kansas-type team in basketball anytime soon, either. But to have the AD schedule the only home OOC game in football against Texas Southern and then struggle against them is not acceptable. Losing to a d-2 team in basketball is unacceptable, especially when you have your most talented team in school history. That is the point that is being made here, especially in light of the reality that our basketball program has sucked big time under this unproven coach. Donations and attendance are mandatory for any school to compete--there is no doubt. But getting on a school's internet forum and ALWAYS pumping sunshine is not any wiser than our resident internet idiot, GL2GreatnessCheckFacts, coming on here to run down everything about UNT. Every single Athletic Dept in America is dependent on donations and attendance, just as they are subject to criticism or complaints when those donors/butts-in-seats aren't satisifed with the products being shown on the field/court. Here at UNT, when you really look back at it, we have had two good years in football and two good years in basketball in the last 15 years. Our 2002 team won the NO Bowl over Cincy, and our 2003 team beat Baylor in OOC and lost to Memphis in that NO Bowl in a tough battle. The other bowl teams were not really that great, they just ran the table of a weak conference of fledgling programs only to get manhandled in those bowl games. In hoops, the 2007 basketball team caught fire at the end of the year and gave Memphis a game for about 3/4 of the game until they finished us off with a pretty good run. In 2010, we got wood-shedded by a great K-State team that we did not match up with at all, size-wise. I review this all because its totally understandable why the actual few people that do care about our teams would need to vent about the "progress" they've witnessed lately. The difference is that the other schools in our area of the country that have been playing FBS football and Division I hoops together for the last 15 years will never let their programs get as low as we have, but that's because they all have money and administrative support for their teams. We have never had the latter until getting some recently, and we have never had the former, so watching the AD make poor hires exacerbates the problem greatly. Because those fans that do care enough to come out and watch and donate to the program know full well that a bad hire in a $$$ sport not only cannot be fixed soon, in reality it just crushes the entire department for years to come. The alums we work with at those other schools just don't understand how different things operate in Denton. And I'm not talking about the Big XII/SEC alums. SMU, Rice, Tulane, and Tulsa all have lots of $$$ we will never have. UH and UTEP have administrations that won't tolerate losing or poor hires, in part because they have decent attendance in their big sports. We don't have either of those, which is why a poor hire--and that is what Benford is until he proves otherwise at this point--it causes us all to realize that we are just gonna have to bite down hard and deal with it, because we cannot afford to make a change that these other places would be able to do. So naturally, Vic Trilli and Todd Dodge get to coach an extra year or two beyond what any of these other places would allow.

Touting the academic credibility of SMU has become a joke.

Translation: I want to be in a conference with SMU and Houston.

KRAM, you say people not giving money is part of the problem, what do you think is the other part of the problem, in your opinion? I just find it odd that considering the current state of our athletic department, the only people you call out are private citizens, so to speak, and their pocketbooks. I'm willing to bet there are very few people who loudly complain and don't buy tickets or donate. I'm positive there are plenty of sports fans and alums that don't care at all about UNT sports other than to look at a score every now and then and say "same ol' North Texas" and move on with their lives. At this point I wish we had more people who cared enough to complain. The problem isn't complainers, it's the state of the athletic department that has caused people to simply not care at all. A change in the W-L column will start to turn that around. It's the nature of sports here in the DFW area, you have to give the people something to care about first. Ask the Mavs and Rangers.

Nice try. If you ever bother to read anything I've posted, never said CUSA was beneath ASU. I've said repeatedly that CUSA won't consider ASU. Look at the last five years of the Sun Belt in football. CUSA only took one of the top four programs.We don't fit what CUSA wants. I could act like the minority here and be a baby about stuff not going perfectly as I would like. I accept reality we aren't in a large TV market and we lack the reality distortion field that Tech has that brainwashes people into believing they are some unique rising star. We're stuck in the Sun Belt but we aren't sitting around pouting. We've reached out to the community, we sell tickets, we secure donations and we work to build the best program we can. Sneer at ASU and a nice community if that is how you fnd validation or maybe start asking why your program isn't demanding accountability and isn't taking care of business like the rubes do.

While the MWC might end up being the better conference in terms of on the field play. CUSA still would be better for UNT. More regional teams within driving distance. No late night games. And in the end it's all about winning, CUSA should provide more winnable games.

Hell yes. If we get a chance to be in the same conference as smu and Houston, we have to jump all over it. As much as we all hate them, how can we not say yes to the oppurtunity to play them every year in conference play? Plus the addition of a couple other regional rivals? You guys are crazy to say no. That would be much better than Tulsa, rice, utsa.

"Sneer at ASU and a nice community if that is how you fnd validation or maybe start asking why your program isn't demanding accountability and isn't taking care of business like the rubes do." Winner.

Any news on Benford? Any chance he will be out long term?

You may want to be better than Northern Illinios but at this point I would love to have multiple 10 win seasons and playing in the Orange Bowl. And we may aspire to be better than ULM or ASU but the cold fact is that we aren't better and haven't been for a while. That isn't any donors fault. It's the AD and coaches fault. I talk to people all the time about the MGC and/or bring them to the games and for the most part it is a tough sell because they see losing football and besides parking (which you only get if you give more) they don't see the MGC as a good deal. You and I may give no matter what but most people want to see something for their money. That's just the way it is and to not acknowledge that is just sticking your head in the UNT sand. The truth is, the big donors move mountains, not "if only %10 gave at the minimum level". Not saying having a lot of smaller donors isn't a good thing, but it won't move North Texas to where you aspire it to be. In the end my view is simple as this. If we were winning 8+ games a year, going to bowl games and having a new stadium and still had lackluster attendance and support, then that would be a fan/supporter problem. If we are one of the worst football programs in the country and complain about fans/supporters, that is a leadership problem. I'm glad we have fans like KRAM, but I prefer to hold the people who get paid well to do their job accountable, not the people who actually give money to the program. Or people who don't give. Even if the people who don't give never complained, it still wouldn't change how the football program has performed. Or the BBall program this year (3 points in the first ten minutes last night!?). Lastly, and only because this point makes me a little crazy, I didn't vote this year. My vote needs to be earned, I don't just pull the lever because somebody thinks I have to vote. I have that right and earned it by spending six years in the Marine Corps. Just in case that card is played.

What is the old guy who coached special teams at Iowa St. back in the day doing?

This is the best news Bumford has heard all season. Now if he can just trick everyone into forgetting how bad we sucked before this happened.... His excuse is set!!!

He's a current student, or so he says.

Here's a tissue. And could you please grab a mop...the stomping from your tantrum has scuffed up the floor. Deep down you know you deserved that. The hyperbole in your post was simply crying out to be acknowledged...

All i've ever asked for was to compete at a high level in the Sun Belt in football. We haven't been doing that for a long time now. And yeah, I could run the MGC. Pretty confident in saying that.

I think the "academic" argument is about done for any conference. One could make the case for the ACC or Big Ten but with the addition of Louisville, that has gone out the window. Some of the Big Ten's academics were not all that sterling to begin with. Rice and UTSA in the same conference, who would have thunk it?

CougarKing, What years did you attend the University of Houston and what area was your degree awarded in ? Translation: CougarKing has never attended the University of Houston

This is what I read as well. I think he is saying to his donors, "Look, C-USA already has Dallas and Houston. Even though it doesn't now have other private schools like us, we'll probably be okay because we're already beating the public schools in C-USA." Remember, though, as I've already said, Tulsa's old money really thinks TU is a basketball school. They would have slobbered at the opportunity to get into the Big East before all of the basketball school left it. Although the MWC has no privates either, they will - in theory - have better hoops programs than the new Big East will. Currently, MWC RPI is #2, Big East #3...C-USA #11, behind the MVC (led by Creighton) and WCC (led by Gonzaga). Adding us, UTSA, and the others isn't going to help C-USA's basketball profile. Sun Belt RPI is currently #21, below even the Southland. These RPI rankings are as of 1/2/13, which, last I checked was today: http://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/rpi-ranking/rpi-rating-by-conf

Well if you are arguing academics and then trying to lobby for the MWC, I just don't think you argument is making much sense at all. You go west and you get Hawaii, UNLV, Nevada, San Jose State, Utah State, Fresno, New Mexico...great institutions of course but Duke, Rice, Vanderbilt, Tulane you are not. Tulsa is smart for waiting to see how the dust settles rather than jumping aimlessly into the abyss. The new CUSA is going to have some excellent rivalries and does not suffer from the negative brand image that the Big East and the Sun Belt do. I would argue and may be solo on this, but I believe the Sun Belt image has improved this year and shed some of its baggage. For UNT I would do the following in this order: 1. Accept an invite to MWC 2. Build CUSA No Big East and no Sun Belt. Time for the right change. GMG

That's how I read it. Follow SMU and Houston to either the nBE or MWC should Tulsa be invited.

Word is that the AD disagreed with Malzahn on how things should be done to "take this thing to the next level", and Gus went over his head to big boosters and/or system president and/or the governor(huge stAte fan) and Lee was reassigned. I'm sure Arkstfan will correct this if necessary.

Nice try, keep on preaching but your logic makes no sense. In fact we dominated the Sun Belt with less support than we have while getting our asses handed to us. You want to explain that to me? ArkStFan might have the correct numbers but I doubt they have outdrawn us by much if at all the past couple of years. Or could it be they've made good coaching hires and have had outstanding quarterback play. Naaahhh.

I hear Eeeeeeee Eeeeee is thinking of transferring in. His other offers to McNeese State and Devry fell through.

If we played Al.-Huntsville again tomorrow, I doubt the outcome would be different. That should tell you everything you need to know.

I do not believe this season can be turned around while Benford is still our coach. This team has that talent to turn the season around, win the Sun Belt tourny, and go to the NCAA tourny, but only if Benford is replaced right now. Last night North Texas was embarrassed on national T.V. RV needs to deal with this situation now. I support this team, but I cannot support watching everything Jones built over the past decade go down in flames. It is time to stop making excuses for Benford and this season. Fire him. Reassign him. I don't care. Just don't let him near the bench ever again.

Tony didn't have a great game yesterday but to suggest he is the reason the Cowboys can't win the big game is rather ridiculous. Tony Romo is the only reason the Cowboys ever have a chance every Sunday. Without Tony this season they would be one of the worst teams in the NFL hands down.

There is no doubt that there should be a 2 way street here but it is up to the school and athletics department to go even more above and beyond to figure this mess out. That is why they get paid. I am not saying they can be messiahs for everything but if other "mid major" schools can somehow manage to do well in sports and manage good hires in key sports then there isn't a reason we can't do it here at NT. Hell we haven't even been respectable in close to a decade in football. Those early NO Bowl years were nothing compared to what we have now in terms of resources so if people bring up there just isn't enough support and money then I call that complete BS or maybe lack of managing the resources you have because you didn't have a lot of stuff a decade ago that you have now. Yes things are slowly but surely changing culture wise but I will say again that you have to give students, alums, fans, the casual people etc a reason for them to come to games. If the team stinks people just won't come and the apathy will continue. That is just the way it is and it doesn't matter if you're an alum or not. People these days have other options and yes at the end of the day if you stink you will not be inclined supporting a train wreck every season in practically every sport that people care about. More donations and less apathy will only happen if you win, win consistently and actually make some noise on the national landscape.

@Arkstfan - can u explain the firing of your AD not too long ago. Was it due to lack of donations , ticket sales or was there a scandal ? Someone can certainly correct my #'s if I'm wrong , but i believe the Red Wolf Club raised over 2 million dollars this past season while our Mean Green Club was sitting at less than $400,000 brought it. These #'s are me going off memory , so I certainly can be wrong

Reality?

A-State has a good program,nice stadium, and good fan base. A bonus as an assistant coach is their recent history of beaing able to move to up to larger schools as openings become available. Finally, the title of assistant[or associate] head coach is just a way to pay them more,nothing else. One only has to look at our recent hire of an assistant head basketball coach to lead our men's program as a prime example. I wish A-State nothing but the best. It's hard to say anything negative about as opponent who kicked your butt 8 years in a row. Whatever flavor of koolaid they are drinking needs to be on out sideline.

So, are you saying if we pay more into this train wreck of an athletic department we will get better results or better leadership?

I don't care but to call a team "not that good" who put us down without a lot of effort is not right.

Um. We forgetting that Tony absolutely dominated from the jump last season? He likely would have done something similar this season if it weren't for the coaching change/injuries to guards. He is still obviously the best player on the floor. He has a ton of flaws -- the worst being the lack of a perimeter game. The right coaching and mentoring can turn him into a solid NBA guy for years. He most definitely plays out of position and isn't complimented well enough. His flaws exacerbate our current problems (lack of shooting, lack of post-moves). It still is on the coach to work around that not make excuses. I don't buy that Tony is lazy, untalented, moody, or overrated. He impressed at both camps this offseason, and did well at the USA thing. As for shooting in the NBA? Last year when he got rhythm 3s he hit 40% of them. Totally can be a Bruce Bowen spot up guy if he works at it. Mavs might* be a lotto team this year - -- what ya'll think? Tony in a Mav uniform?

Coaches, especially at the assistant level, switch programs for a cornucopia of reasons, so we shouldn't be quick to assume that the decision has anything to do with either stupidity or prestige/payroll. I have great respect for ASU's accomplishments over the last few years (in fact I drove out to Lafayette to cheer for them in the 2005 New Orleans Bowl), However, in the great scheme of things, I don't think either UNT or ASU fans need to be thumping chests when compared to one another. In terms of athletic expenditures and bowl victories, we're both equally dismal.

1) The arrival of 2013 2) Joining CUSA 3) Hot Springs. If you haven't made this trip, you missed out on some great college sports fun. 4) Tony Mitchell posting 34 points and 16 rebounds @ a good S. Alabama team in a road win in OT. I guess he could create his own shot back then. 5) 5 football home games, with a great OOC schedule at home of Texas Southern... <Sarcasm>

I wish we had half the success at the game of football that ASU has had the last 8 years. We got into CUSA because of facilities provided by student fees and TV market., not performance on the field. Not really anything to talk noise about. Arkstfan, it has been a really rough couple of months around here. People will vent at any outsider. Keeps us from venting at each other.

Hey Seuss...the question was for MY favorite MOMENT in Mean Green sports in 2012, not yours. Joe

Coach Riddle jumps ship to coach in a lesser conference (if things remain status qou)? Unless he is taking a coordinator position, this doesn't forecast a good first season in CUSA for little ole for UNT.

Seriously...sick of this.

First, everbody wants all NT signees to be successful. Ellis is probaby a good example of were NT recruiting is right now. He is far from a sure thing but has the tangibles to succeed. The issue is that he is going to have to play a position that he has not played a lot and gain weight to do it without losing any quickness. Can it happen, sure it can but, best case it could take a couple of years. The good thing as pointed out, is that NT doesn't have to depend on new LBs next year.

Listen. We get it. You're related to Konockus Sashington. Coach Mac only wants to play his guys, regardless of their obvious nomenclatural awesomeness. He's obviously blinded by favoritism for his guys. That said, if he lands that recruit named F4hour Ermahgerd Sterraz, then he's a genius.

Just a small observation...one of us never calls for the canning of any coach.

No. The only metroplex school I'd like to be in a conference with is T C U.

How did California University of Pennsylvania steal Xmus Jaxon Flaxon-Waxon out from under our nose??? THIS IS WHAT A COACH WITH A CAREER LOSING RECORD GETS YOU, FOLKS!!!!

Tony can and should go pro. He has nothing left that this coaching staff can do for him. I've said it before and I'll say it again...good coaches adjust their system to the strengths of their players. Think Mike Shanahan, a guy with TWO Super Bowl rings, is glad he catered his offense to fit a rookie QB? The Cowboys aren't. Tony has an above average ability, in my estimation, to take a fellow big man offthe dribble. I'd run sets where we vlear out and let him try to get to the hole. Not all the time, or even primarily, but I'd run it every time they start to pack it in. I'd run pick and rolls with CJ and J-Will where someone is always dive cutting into the center of that zone. Hell, I'd run anything that differs from stagnant passing around the perimeter and praying for our shooting percentage to magically improve. This kid KNOWS (not thinks) he could be getting paid to do this for a living. He came back because he does love his teammates, this school and being in school in general. Even more than his freak athleticism I was always amazed and how humble and childlike he was. It's not fun for him out there. And if some of you stubborn folks can't see that waging a war if wills with the best talent we've ever seen shows a complete lack of wisdom on the part of the ADULTS in this equation then NT athletics will never be without customers...because you'll buy anything.

And then it will go away again. I know kids in college think they are the center of the universe, but they are sadly mistaken. Grow up. Realize that older alums that have actually accomplished a thing or two in life don't appreciate obscenities in their alma mater's fight song. Realize that they are pissed that your immaturity caused THEIR fight song to be altered. Realize that maybe people with young children in the crowd don't want their children exposed to this language. And most of all, maybe have a sense of self-perspective that when you get older, this will be behavior of which you will be very embarrassed. If you grow up, that is.