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Seems UNT90 and I were having a civil discourse. Why don't you go back to your "the mean kids don't listen to my crotchety and self-important bitching anymore so I'm taking my ball and going home" board?

Let's face it. We've earned our lack of respect. If the SMUs, UTs, A&Ms and Texas Techs of the world have kept UNT down it's cause we didn't care enough to do something about it and weren't effective in countering it. That said, I have absolutely no doubt that every day representatives of those schools are working against the interests of UNT and thus against the citizens of the North Texas region. For that you get hate but you are not alone.

I'm not ancient. I'm a 2007 grad and will hate SMUt until my last breath. My hatred stems from the 2007 game at Ford stadium when some collar-poppin', pink polo wearin', d-bags called my friends and me a slur used for homosexuals that starts with the letter F. I would have loved to give him a "five knuckle introduction" but figured his legal counsel was probably WAY better than mine so we just let it go. I hate those pompous asshats like nothing else in the world. The constant garbage about North Texas Community College grads mowing their lawn only adds fuel to the fire. I hope McCarney beats them by 50 every time we play and keeps trying to score until the end of the game, just to rub salt in the wound. I hate everything about SMUt, even their carnival-barker-filled band. [/end rant]

This. It didn't take me long to learn that there are haters on both sides. Just offer a beer to those who won't pour it over your head...and move on!

Actually, the facts plain and simple are that no presidential election has been won on the platform of "I'm not _____(current president)." The Republicans will eventually settle on a candidate that will appeal to about a third of their base and maybe a quarter of the moderates and will bank on winning with a "I'm not Obama" campaign rather than "I'm _______, a strong and charismatic leader with this clear plan of action to move America forward." It will fail...it failed in 2004, 1984, anyone led to slaughter against FDR...it's just not a successful strategy for winning an election. The primaries have shown that the nomination will eventual be won by attrition. The loyalists will still just punch the R square at the top of the card, but each one...Romney, Santorum and Gingrich...have something off-putting enough to swing voters to keep them away. Romney's willingness to change his stance on everything at any given moment depending upon to whom he's attempting to pander may well be the only Republican hope.

Why do you hate everybody?

I don't get it Kram. My 83 year-old grandfather has a better sense of humor than you.

First, let me say this...I'd prefer to be in a conference with Tulsa over anyone else that that is not a current (or soon to be) AQ member. They always have good competitive football and basketball and are only a couple of hundred miles away. Win...win for us. It worked out well the last time that we were in a conference with them and should happen again. As to Tramel's conference, I'd add Rice and drop Louisiana-Monroe. Louisiana Tech would likely insist on that anyway and Louisiana-Lafayette could finally be referred to as just Louisiana. Those teams...Tulsa, Southern Miss, North Texas, Rice, Louisiana, Louisiana Tech, Tulane, Texas State, UTSA and Arkansas State would form a rather compact ten-team conference where each member is within a day's drive of each other. Each team should be capable of averaging at least 20,000 attendance for a starter. The downside would be the waiting period for AQ in basketball. I'm beginning to warm to this idea better than the coast to coast to coast conference even if we should be included. Okay, who is going to champion this league?

I wouldn't mind if a meteor came and hit the campus at SMUt. A lot of people I know that are fish and sophs hate SMU because they're snooty a-holes.

Like many of our Native American dialects are dying away as the older generations pass on, so may the hatred for SMU. Sadly the new generation of the Mean Green Nation knows nothing of the SWC C#*^k block SMU gave us back in the 70's. They unfortunately never had a chance to see the "Cash over Trash" signs. Why most freshman have never even experienced the sneers and snickering at the watercooler of injustice. We need to act now to preserve this hatred. How can you help? I'm glad you asked. For only the price of a cup of coffee per day you too can help keep the bile and disdain flowing like the glorious waters of the River Jordan. With your help, future generations of proud UNT students and alums will have the morsels of anger in their empty stomachs that they so desperately need. Won't you help? Paid for by The UNT Alumni for a better tomorrow

Why NOT hate SMU?

This. Let me make this fundamentally clear for all of our SMU guests. Don't take this as a flame, just take it and let it marinate. NOBODY IN DALLAS, OUTSIDE OF THE HEADS OF SMU ALUMS, GIVES A RAT'S ASS ABOUT SMU. NO, NOT WHEN YOU BROUGHT HOUSTON, UTEP, TULSA, RICE, ETC TO YOUR STADIUM. NO, NOT NOW THAT YOU ARE IN A "BCS" LEAGUE. NOBODY. You could argue that you have had better attendance than NT recently...and whine about your small endowment (oops I mean enrollment, and I didn't mean endowment as in your school's money). The bottom line is this though: 1)North Texas has drawn pretty close numbers at the turnstiles WITHOUT bringing regional opponents as conference games. 2)You are IN Dallas. Not close to it, not a suburb of it, IN THE FREAKIN MIDDLE OF IT. And yet still people aint comin. Hmmmm 3)I've been to your games. Unless your press box holds 5,000 there's a "fudge margin" built into your attendance figures. 4)You have had a very nice stadium (Apogee is better...it just is) for going on a decade now...at least we could blame crappy facilities. The funniest thing to me is that you SMU will continue with their "we don't need you" mentality while perpetually scratching their heads over why people just don't show up.

Oh...and before I get completely drawn off-side and into political conversation on this slow day at work...this is gold.

This is fine. Many of us have suggested something similar for years. The problem is buttholes. Banowsky, C-USA commish, is a nice enough guy. But, his league has been picked clean, so I'm not sure he's all on the ball. Tulsa, which you'd think would be happy just being included, as small as they are, fancies themselves a basketball school...although their absence from the NCAA for, what...a decade...says otherwise. The Louisiana schools have the same hang ups SMU did about being in a conference with us. No one will admit that they're not big time. The problem is always the same as we learned in law school: -Middle-aged white men -With money and -In positions of power -Unable to compromise -Because they their egos (complexes about their small and/or ineffective penises). So, while all of this makes sense to well-adjusted individuals and people as a whole, it will never make sense to athletic directors, university presidents, and rich donors who see themselves guardians of something that's not as important in the scheme of things as they think it is - college athletics.

Wait, I didn't think it was against NCAA rules to have high cholesterol. I'm confused. Did tony have a heart attack or not?

Big East is playing the same game the Alliance is playing. OH CRAP WE GOTTA DO SOMETHING NOW!!!! The Big East and Alliance are cobbling up coast-to-coast leagues that are inherently unstable because there are so few "we want to play each" groupings or pairings in them. Look at the Alliance concept. One of the foundational principles is they want to create divisions so large they don't play anyone from the other division. That's not a conference, it's a mini-NCAA.

What a horrible website! I tried to read it but gave up. You would think guys from $MU would have enough money for a decent message board.

Hahahahah that board makes me laugh. They are so delusional.

Where's that smu2006 guy now? He should read that thread and then ask why most of us hate smu again..

Wow, who pissed on those guys' cornflakes?

Good job quoting the new testament there, Rick.

Yo Jews, why all the vitriol?

Wasn't that game a sellout as well? It's the height of stupidity that UNT & SMU haven't been playing each other on a regular basis for all these years.

First off, I'm an SMU alum and this is not a flame thread. My wife is a UNT alum and I've been to the campus several times. I have several friends and family members that have attended UNT and they all have nothing but positive things to say about their experiences in Denton. That said, I started lurking this board around the time that SMU started recruiting Chase Walling and was stunned by the hatred of SMU. I guess the real question is why? We hardly ever play each other in any sport and have absolutely no rivalry whatsoever. I could understand if there was any sort of consistent on-field or on-court rivalry, but that clearly doesn't exist. So I really wonder why so many of you are so consumed with what's going on at SMU. Also, why the hatred for SMU and not TCU. I can understand people that think SMU is a bit of a "pink polo" culture, but have you ever stepped foot on the campus at TCU? It's the EXACT same kind of thing. Yes J.Crew makes purple shirts too only at TCU they throw on a pair of cowboy boots so I guess that makes it okay. Both are small, private schools that have a relatively large student population that come from wealthy families. However, it seems like most UNT fans on this board like TCU and hate SMU. Is this a Dallas-Fort Worth thing? I have a ton of respect for TCU, but be honest. They have their fair share of country club alums just like SMU. For the record, I wish UNT all the best. The new stadium is a real gem and I look forward to making a trip out there in a few years to see the Ponies play. I also look forward to welcoming any of you when you make the return trip to the Hilltop. My family has a tent on The Boulevard and we never turn any fans away regardless of affiliation. I think UNT is on the right track with the new coaching staff and has a chance to vastly improve their lot in conference affiliation here in a few years if you can have a little more success on the field. CUSA was good to us at SMU. It was a marked step up from the WAC days and it provided us the platform to get the attention of the Big East. I would be very happy to see UNT in CUSA as I think they provide a real value to the conference. I also understand hate is what makes college sports great so I take it all with a grain of salt. But I bet if some of you took the time to head over to SMU and see it for what it truly is the stereotypes of the past would melt away. SMU is a top 50 national institution with a 1.3B endowment, a presidential library, a top twenty business school, a top fifty law school, a member of a BCS conference, and has one of the most beautiful campus settings in the entire country. Are there some kids there that are on a four year vacation with daddy's money? You bet. They exist. Guess what? There are some of the same type kids at UNT and every other campus in America. SMU is a much different place in 2012 than it was in 1990. I was the son of two public school teachers in East Texas that was fortunate enough to attend SMU and met several kids at SMU who come from similar backgrounds. Not all of us were born with a silver spoon in our mouths. Lastly, good luck with everything in the future. Again, I think UNT is headed in the right direction and I'm pulling for the Mean Green in every game that doesn't involve the Ponies. Also don't give up on the conference realignment scenarios. Its way too early for that. That story isn't written yet. With a little luck I think UNT will find itself in a very competitive league that dwarfs the Sun Belt. I'll be sure to post here if there are any rumors that invovle UNT in the CUSA-MWC merger talks. Best to all.

I could write all night on this subject and still not answer many of the things that have been discussed. I sort of have a dog in the fight because my oldest daughter is on the staff at SMU and her daughter goes to TCU. My daughter's late father-in-law was an SMU grad and one of the finest men that I've ever known. I'm also a Methodist. Some of my very best friends are SMU grads. With all of that I still can't stand SMU. I would be willing to forgive (but not forget) but the continued vitriol from their pompous excuse for fans will probably never allow that to happen. Most of the comments about SMU and keeping us out of the SWC are true. We had the support of Darrel Royal and still couldn't pull it off. True, there was never a vote taken but I think that we saw the handwriting on the wall when Frank Broyles was against us. Arkansas was the only outsider and he didn't want another Texas school to deal with. The difference between our treatment of SMU and TCU is that (too) many SMU fans are rude and disrespectful of us. TCU simply ignores us. It's hard to be vindictive toward anyone who says little, good or bad, about you.

Why are these guys so insecure? What's their obsession?

You're all missing the point. A thread about who could be on a possible list of CUSA replacements, on a board dedicated to a school who "never gives us a second thought", is 90% about US.

Looks like they're working their a$$es off!

--Completely disagree... and we are not just talking about sports. Besides UT and Arkansas [ Royal and Broyle] were the two that wanted us (with Hayden Fry) in the SWC as team #10. This was not too long after admitting Houston as #9. The Pac-8 had just gone to 10 with the two Arizona colleges taken from the WAC. SMU talked TCU and Baylor into opposing us. We needed 7 approvals and only two against... that was three against.. officially no vote was taken... no point with three speaking against it. Arkansas and UT had played us recently and I think UT that year.

so many things wrong in there. I just puked all over my keyboard and had to delete the the resulting text. Even though it was more meaningful.

x 2

Ok Im going to go Saturday and come back Monday. Best place to stay? I don't want to drink and drive lol

I get my full share of blowholes right here at GMG.com Tom Russell knows a lil something about roosters

And I'll drink to that! I've worked for and had a few from SMU work for me in the tech school recruiting business and the amazing thing was how damn well we all got along as we could poke fun at our own respective schools, too. I guess just not on the football field of battle, though, eh? Actually, many of us have said that SMU/UNT was a rivalry just waiting to happen but as they say...it takes 2 to Tango. GMG!

Indeed. It's all about the person. I just hired a production assistant who graduated from SMU. Imagine that....a UNT alum hires an SMU grad. Good grief. JRock

If we need another perfect example. Go read the CUSA thread on Ponyfans right now. I especially like the thread about acceptance letters and the kid whose dad won't help him out. On behalf of Bugs Bunny. What an ignoramus. What a maroon. Which way did he go, George, which way did he go? JRock

Can't remember ever quoting myself from an older post but I posted what the Tulsa reporter is alluding to back on November 22, 2011 (and have made a few alterations from that post) Addendum: Tulsa U, Tulane U, Rice U and USM would have to lead the way to make this happen because without them it would all be a moot point and still basically be the, uh, Sun Belt Conference. In a nutshell, this conference really needs to be their idea but some here and at other message boards planting a few seeds one can never know the end result. I hope the Tulsa reporter expands on the upside of such a league in another column and will tweak his membership list some, too. Posted 22 November 2011 - 08:15 PM Obviously, just killing time watching the debates... The Sun Belt Conference as Wright Waters has envisioned it might as well be called the South Belt Conference. Nothing wrong with Wright, but for a non AQ league it really is too far spread out IMHO. Folks, we are not going to make much in TV revenues now or anytime soon, so regionalize into a new conference with a few metro areas in it. I know we lose more in basketball points, but the Big Boy are on the verge of really making us lose more than just points. A consortium of college presidents at some (or all ) of the schools listed below would hire a good "experienced with conference TV packages"" associate commisioner to be this league's new commish' (probably one who is presently employed in an established conference)............. then............. turn him loose. He (she) might then get a consortium of schools in a 4 or 5 state region (Texas, La, NM, Ark, ???). If Wright Waters can get the SBC a bowl game in its 1'st year, I think history can repeat itself in doing that again with a strong, new commissioner. (Maybe one of our new schools already has a bowl in its city or could get a 2'nd bowl a la New Orleans Bowl)? Conference Name? The name "Southwest Conference" is not available and is now housed or headquartered at the Texas Sports Hall of Fame, Waco. YOU NAME THE CONFERENCE AND WHAT CRITERIA THAT EACH SCHOOL IN IT SHOULD FOLLOW WITH FACILITIES, ACCESS TO AIRPORTS, ATTENDANCE STANDARDS, ETC, ETC, ETC The ___________________Conference (1) UTSA (2) NMSU (3) Ark State (4) La Tech (5) U of Louisiana (6) Rice University (7) University of North Texas (8) Tulsa University (9) Tulane University (10) University of Southern Miss I know starting a new league has not been the thing to do of late, but what do non AQ programs have to lose at this point in time or in the near future?

Think we could ever launch the dementors on them? That would learn them good.

More poeple die in car crashes than handgun incidents. If your going to ban a machine, maybe you should start with the automobile

Me thinks the little conservative doesn't get it. Obama will beat Romney. Polls are showing the more Romney talks and talks and talks the less people like him, his numbers polling against Obama are dropping. Santorum would not beat Obama, and I know you are going to disagree with that, but you're wrong. Santorum would not get the independent voters, no way, no how.

Long way to go. You may not, but the majority of independents will if the economy is still terrible. Think candidate Obama circa 2008.

Flying into Dallas and getting a ride up to Hot Springs. See yall there.

Never known a gun to "go off" on it's own. Never seen the headline "toddler Crawls into yard and is shot by 7 handguns while no one else was around." You can't compare an animal with a machine. And you shouldn't.

I'm not from these parts, so I have neither history with nor hatred for SMU. In fact, I have nothing. I am completely indifferent, and disregard SMU completely, having never to my knowledge even encountered an SMU alum. All I know is that I drove up to Denton, got a graduate business degree, and walked out the door with a kick-ass job. All for a fraction of what the same degree, with the same resulting job, would cost had I gone down Mockingbird way. If there is any scorn I hold for SMU, it's those god awful radio ads for "Executive MBA's" at the Cox School of Business that "Cost more, but are better." Horse shit. If that isn't the Pink Polo mentality I've heard so much about being bandied around the FM dial, then I don't know what is. Bottom line: UNT degrees work. Unless your last name is Bush or Clinton or some such ilk, I don't care how much your degree costs. You're starting out in the same place I am, and we'll match wits in the free market from there on out, nobody ever bothering to ask our alma maters again. Everything else, results on the field, logos on personalized license plates, season tickets sold, conference affiliation, or number of pristine hedges on campus, is secondary.

My initial thought upon reading just the title of the thread.... "Poisonous poison: Why not drink it?"

OK, let's tell it like it is. TCU will play us sometimes both in football and basketball. TCU, while somewhat monied, never has orchestrated a player payoff scam to the scale of SMU. When we played TCU in Fort Worth, we were not under the gun to sell x number of tickets or face the threat of cancellation of the series. TCU has never asked us to sell x amount of reserved priced tickets and then gone out and given away thousands of tickets to Jack in the Box, etc. In 1984 the SMU ticket manager called us to ask how many season tickets we had sold...I told them around 500...the man laughed and told me they had sold over 3,000 or so and hung up. We have never banned a cheerleading squad from our basketball floor..SMU did just that when we visited Moody in the early 90's. When SMU returned the game in Denton the next year they had the distinction of being the only school whose cheer squad was banned from getting on our floor. Speaking of basketball, it is my understanding that the only holdout for a metroplex early season basketball tournament is SMU. UTA, UNT and TCU seem amiable to the idea. Maybe you are victims of haughty athletic administrators. Also, when we played SMU in Texas Stadium SMU would not sell us a big block of tickets so our fans could sit together...we were spread out throughout the stadium. We returned the favor when SMU came to Denton in '89..not more than 10 SMU tickets together in Fouts for that game. SMU fans cried and cried over that, but what is good for the goose is good for the gander. Quid pro quo. It doesn't have to be that way, but it was in the past. Just as our people seem to have a bit of a persecution complex, SMU seems to have a preoccupation with self engrandisement.

I'll join in on this. First off, SMU2006, you seem like a pretty good guy. I suppose time will tell if you post more on this site, but I hope you always feel welcome to do that. Secondly, the conference blackballing is real. The SWC hurts the most because we were very good at the time (ranked in the late 70s with a great coach that you guys discarded in Hayden Fry). To this day, I believe that bothered lots of SMU alums who wanted him fired on the Hilltop and then watched him go up the highway and turn around a program quickly into a big winner, which he couldn't do at SMU. In Texas, if you were SWC, you were gold--still are in some ways. Alas, if you weren't, then you were/are pretty irrelevant to many fans and media. Itsunderstandable--you guys got to host the Longhorns, Razoorbacks, Aggies, Cougars, Bears, etc...when they were ranked programs at the height of the conference's heyday. We got games at home against...West Texas State and others like them. When it became clear that there was no way we would get to join the SWC--unlike Houston just a few years earlier, who would go on to win the SWC many times once they gained membership--Fry bolted to Iowa for better support and opportunities. For Iowa and Hayden Fry, it was a match made in heaven. For us, it led to purgatory, or better yet, college football hell as a i-aa school. To this day, we deal with the acrimony and apathy that i-aa status did for us. Is that SMU's fault? No, but you all made it clear that we wouldn't be allowed in the Texas Big Boys League, which are administration literally took to heart. Decades later, as we finally began to build back up from the ashes, as a severely underfunded college program, SMU was also very down. Skipped over by the Big XII, left for dead in an obscure huge league called the WAC that would soon get pillaged, most on the Hilltop recognized the spiral that was going on was lethal, especially while your biggest rival, TCU, made their way upward by basically getting away from all of its non-BCS Texas rivals, except y'all. In no way, was SMU going to find themselves so low on the totem pole as to be associated in a conference with North Texas. So, as you guys migrated to CUSA from the WAC and we moved from the Big West to the Sun Belt, you all still lorded over us that our conference was a glorified 1-aa league. Fans and media have always looked down on the SBC, in some ways it is clearly understandable. But when CUSA finally had an opening, a chance for us to finally get the opportunity to be associated with other Texas school in a legitimate 1-a conference, where was SMU putting their support? Behind freaking La Tech, a school so small in a market so miniscule that no one would want in a decent league. Of course, UTEP wanted want we did, and they had the advantage of a decent market and a good basketball team to bring to the table, as well as a possible bow tie-in for your league, which still hasn't happened. What about UNT? Well, you kept us from joining a league with any schools within 600 miles of us, where our almuni still don't care about one of those schools, and we dream of getting the chance STILL to be in a conference with other Texas school. So why can't we get into CUSA now? You tell me, because I literally don't know, other than to assume that the membership and leadership have had it made clear to them over the years that we offer nothing. Amazingly, a school with this many students and alumni in the DFW market can't convine anyone in that office that we belong. And for that, I don't blame SMU totally--but I definitely assign much of that blame to the fact that the local DFW media, who still think that the SWC schools are gold, won't even help us get decent coverage here. And for that fact, us not being able to ever get into the Big Boys Club, I blame entirely on SMU. We could easily be like Houston or even Texas Tech now if we had anyone go to bat for us against you guys. Unfortunately, that never happened. And, by the way, I thoroughly expect you guys to buy out of our series if we get decent in a few years and y'all fall back. Money always win in this stuff. Y'all have it, we don't.

Yeah, he may get a few touches. I think Cam Washington's our future RB for the next four years though. Anyway, I'll let you folks get back to it. Good luck next year.

I dunno, man.