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The fans don't help! Based on the hits on the front page of GMG: Football = 21,865 Topics 237,667 Replies Basketball = 6,175 Topics 50,061 Replies Over the past 5 years, what Sunbelt basketball program has been better than UNT? Over the past 5 years, what Sunbelt football program has been worse than UNT? Despite the recent success, most fans still prefer to talk about and support Football. I have always been a 50/50 supporter of football and basketball. Don't love one over the other. I have always preferred to discuss basketball because of the lack of traffic, support and/or interest. Wasn't that long ago that you could count on 1 hand the number of regular posters on the basketball side. Why wait until the team start winning to jump on the bandwagon. When they lose, we're quickly off. Football has been so bad for so long that I couldn't defend the administration if they decided to drop the program. I once brought up the benefits of dropping down to Division 1AA; until we could raise money for a stadium and build up basketball. Additionally, we could attract top D1 transfers that we are not able to now. (As a bad D1). That post was deleted early. Texas State and others have parlayed this practice into D1 status. (Without lingering D1 bills) Let's include a separate basketball recruiting forum for fans. (Or incorporate hoops into the football forum) Far too many fans don't attend games and rely 100% on the opinion of others. Why are so many so shocked at the recent performance of this team? Bring back the Peach Basket and all other similar vehicles that promote basketball. It's embarrassing when top kids come up for visits and the pit is almost empty. I can understand a number of guys being so frustrated with football that they have looked to basketball to help keep their sanity. For now, I just hope our football program can get up to a level where it does not continue to hurt our basketball recruiting efforts. Not directing this to you MeanGreen61, I'm just saying!

I am just shocked and dismayed. Horrible end to this season and I really don't think you can say that it isn't over. This team is a dead man walking and has been for several weeks now. I NEVER thought this season would end this way and I don't think any reasonable fan would have foreseen this debacle. I don't think JJ is to blame on the open scholarships, though we usually see him as a miracle worker and naturally expect him to pull out a recruiting shocker. None of this will change my passion for watching this team and cheering them on as best I can. I am a lifelong Minnesota Vikings fan, and as a result a pessimist. I am used to getting the proverbial kick in the teeth most years, I am just disappointed that this team is doing it to me this year. We have watched our dreams for this season die. Some of us are in the acceptance stage and some of us are still in denial, while some of us are in the anger stage right now. We should all remember that before any hateful posts are made. By definition we are fanatics, and we are joined in a common cause. We will all still be here next season and the season after that. My family will renew our season tickets for next year, I suspect most of the rest of you will do the same. I will still be there on Saturday and we made sure that our "Ice Game" comp tickets are being used that game to see these seniors off. They have accomplished much, though I suspect in the years to come they will feel like they didn't accomplish as much as they could have. The Mean Green family will come to see this season as an opportunity missed, but as a fan I hold out hope that next year's team will make me forget the disappointment of this year's team. Remember that for us, there is always a next year to look forward to. If I am wrong (and God I hope I am) and they win out I will happily take my lumps.

JJ has given much more to this school than the students, administration and fans have given to him. Cut him some slack. Besides, it is obvious that he is a victim of the Dodge injury curse.

10 pts the other way and we'd be a 1 win team

I agree thoroughly with your comment. Never underestimate the ability of a great coach to "coach up" the talent that he inherits. The cupboard was not bare when Coach Mac arrived. A good new strength coach and coordinated position weight program will make a huge difference in linemen not to mention more 6" 4" recruits than I ever remember. The new coaches found our linemen to be mushy and blubbery. They don't want anyone whose waist is broader than his shoulders. Take a relook at some of the departing JUCOS under this standard and you'll see why even though we could get penetration on the rush we were too slow to pursue to make the sack, i.e. Atkinson,etc. We had barely escaped with one win the year before Hayden Fry took over, and Fry finished 5-5-1 in his first year and won the co-championship of the Missouri Valley Conference. Will there be rough spots such as a 'Bama blow out ? Of course, but don't underestimate the inspiration and new look that comes with the new staff. Do I wish that it could have come a year earlier? Hell yes, but the fact is it took a year to educate the BOR what a real D-1 coach and staff cost in these times. This puts us in a position to compete and win now and that's all any coach can do---put his players in a position to win. Coaches Mac and Chico guarantee that is possible now.

Personally, I think expectations should be raised, from the fans, to the players and coaches, and to the administration. This is the Sun Belt. Coaching matters. If this staff is everything we believe it to be, 6 wins is not out of the question next year.

I think the problem is bigger than having that open scholarship not getting filled. I'd rather see the coaching staff go out and try to get a quality player to fill that scholarship than finding a warm body just to fill the scholarship just because the scholly is there. On the flip side, people would be all over the coaching staff for wasting a scholly when a quality player suddenly becomes available when we used that scholly to appease some of the fan base.

Not trying to make excuses, Rick. But you can't ignore the elephant in the room that some don't seem to think matters. A lot of people are trying to pinpoint why this team is fading, and I'm only offering up my reasoning. I realize that JJ is not above getting criticism and that he's dealing with a lot of the same issues we held Dodge accountable for last season. There are things you can coach and things you can't. I think we give up a lot of length and athleticism to opponents with the people we have injured and not playing 100% right now. Hell, I heard rumors Josh had some issues after Thursday's game coming into Saturday's. Josh White and Dominique are going to get scored on simply because of the height differences. Tristan has been trying a lot harder on defense and been taking punishment on the offensive end as well. (some unneeded). For the first time this season I think I saw Holmen take a charge, the rest of the time he tries really hard to defend from the side and behind. We have problems on defense because of the personnel we have available. I brought a friend to the game on Saturday who wasn't familiar with the current team and his comment around midway through the first half was, "Johnny doesn't sub a whole lot. Our guys look tired." I started running through the roster and his options on the bench, and to be honest, there just aren't many right now when someone has a bad night or has lost confidence. So, what may seem like bad coaching could be the lack of options right now, and most likely a combination of both. This isn't a bad team, they've run into some adversity. They probably aren't as good as the start indicated, and there were some games we probably should have lost if it weren't for those seniors (and Hogans) lifting us through some games. Texas State on the road and Texas Tech at home come to mind. They proved they have it in them to win against decent competition. I can't help but get this feeling that some cheer for the basketball team to have a bad outing so they can come here and say, "I told you so", or chant "overrated". I don't understand.

I miss the invitaaaaaaaaaaaaa-tion! the North Texas Bowwwwwl! GMG!

Mods please lock the basketball board.

If it helps, I think Mangrum played as much while he was here as medically possible. Considering how some of his knee issues were re-aggravated... Possibly MORE than was medically possible.

I have a coworker who runs the game clock for SMU as a part time gig. He hasn't tired of telling me what a good get Mangrum was for SMU. I have told him I'm tired of hearing about it. I kinda wished he'd gotten some more playing time while here.

I miss Mangrum. He was a smart player and we liked having him around. It's good that SMU is realizing he's a great addition.

My link

We check in at #25! Mean Green Sports

Hey Mean Green Nation, There is a little poll for the Best College Football Movie Ever pitting the touching story of a midget that wants to play football at Notre Dame against UNT's own Necessary Roughness. Easy vote in my book... What about yours? VOTE HERE http://www.dailynorseman.com/2011/2/21/2005391/greatest-football-movie-ever-tournament-rudy-vs-necessary-roughness If you need another reason to vote for Necessary Roughness, how about

Well, ULM is definitely not the one I expected to lose if we did drop one, but it is what it is, and the scenarios resulting from it are not good, but could be worse. Absolutely nothing went our way tonight in the other games, but there is still some hope (it is just dwindling). Here are the things that must happen for us to get a bye: 1. WE MUST win all three of our remaining games. (@ASU, DEN, @UALR) That means we finish with a 9-7 record. 2. UALR MUST WIN @ASU next Saturday. 3. The Loser of the DEN/ULL game must lose their 1 other game...this could mean: 1) Denver loses vs. USA tomorrow. OR 2) ULL loses @ULM next Saturday. If the loser of the DEN/ULL game wins their other game, we are eliminated from bye contention. Depending upon which team wins the DEN/ULL game, this scenario would leave us tied with UALR, ASU, and DEN/ULL. If UALR happens to lose vs. USA on thursday, they would not be involved in the tiebreak. Regardless, UNT would win that tiebreak and receive the #2 seed, and a bye. Unless I am missing something obvious (please tell me if I am), this is the only way we can still get a bye. I'm not saying I expect this to happen, in fact it is highly unlikely, but at least we know who we need to root for. The good news is that we will know going into the UALR game exactly what we are playing for, so if need be we can just conserve energy and prepare for Hot Springs. I wish I had better news guys , but despite it all, Go Mean Green! EDIT: I made a mistake...the change is in red above.

Although this is tangentially related to NT Basketball, I didn't think it belonged in that forum: http://video.foxnews.com/v/4548654/brian-kilmeades-sportsblog-no-place-for-isiah-thomas/ "First off, Florida International University should flat-out fire Isiah Thomas..."

I heard our make up game with UALR was going to be played at WKU.

False, nobody likes it there.

I'm not as hostile as other Mustangs due to the fact that I went to UTD for my undergrad and have been doing my grad work at SMU. So I find a lot of the bickering between UNTers and SMUers very funny.

As to the team being tired.....because of the postponed UALR game....as of last Saturday---their last four games were: Feb. 3, Feb. 12, Feb. 17, and then finally Feb. 19. So they shouldn't be spent.....with that much time off from Feb. 3-19. Anyway, if they can't handle that stretch.....I don't see how they're going to win 4 games in 4 days in Hot Springs.

Good article, but I just don't see this team producing anything less than they already have the last 6 years. There is no question that the loss of Shavod and K. Jackson is going to be huge, but listening to our new DC we're going to use the depth in our secondary to run a scheme filled with creative blitzes. I have no idea how that translates to stopping the run, esp. on short yardage, but HOW CAN WE MANAGE OUR EXPECTATIONS TO BE ANY LOWER THAN THEY ALREADY HAVE BEEN!!!?! Todd Dodge has one of the 20 (not percentile, btw) worst head coaching records of ALL TIME, and we just sat through it. Seriously, my expectations for the team are entirely wrapped around how well our QB plays. If someone steps up and is just average without being a turnover prone mess, our offense should be able to run on anyone on the schedule (outside of Bama). I realize we lost 3 good oline starters, but only one of them started in the group that absolutely demolished KSU. We add JJ back to that line, several good youngsters, and Andrew Power to TE. I expect that we'll be able to run the ball, and if not it will be a MASSIVE disappointment. Our defensive performance is going to be all over the place. I think they will turn in some good games, but also get absolutely killed in a few. Our special teams should continue to improve with Olen and Atterbury returning. So really, if we can run the ball and control the clock, we should be in more games than we're not. Whether or not we actually win them? That's another story entirely. Dodge's teams never figured it out. I expect that Mac's teams eventually will.

That really depends on your personal optimism level...mine was too high.

Good article, although I think the lack of JUCO recruits has a lot more to do with the UNT staff not being able to convince top notch JUCO players (especially defensive tackles) to come to UNT (understandable with the short time to recruit), not a grand plan of recruiting high schoolers. I think Coach McCarney will take talent where ever he can find it right now. Also, can we please stop calling 8 point games "down to the wire"? They aren't. We played well against K State, but the game was never in doubt in the last 10 minutes.

I'm not convinced that all the excitement over next years incoming recruits hasn't had at least some negative effect over the current roster. I'm not condoning or defending this mind you, this team has to take care of what's on its plate right now. But I could easily see an attitude developing of how much attention has been given to the potential class of pure studs coming in next season, that we, as a fan base are paying more attention to that and less to what's on the floor right now. When the poor play/losing skid started, the negative reaction to this team and the increased hype to next years class seemed to increase nearly simultaniously. I'm just saying that one just may have helped feed the other. This being said, it's only my opinion and I have no hard evidence to support this theory. What we can do, as a fan base is to show up en masse at the last home game (Denver) and show our seniors as well as the returning underclassmen, how much we appreciate their contribution to what has been a dominant run in the SBC the last 4 years. If there is anything left in their collective tanks, let's see if we can put a spark to it and help push what is still a very talented team to a strong season finish and hopefully a tournament run. GMG!!!!

Good thoughts. I wouldn't go so far as to say I'm not concerned about the record the next year or two, because recruits may not be as understanding. And if we just feed to ball to Lance, with some good Chico change-ups on offense, we ought to be able to go 4-4 in conference easily.

Well, Devonta Abron, who would have been an absolutely enormous pickup specificallly mentioned football in his decision to commit to Arkansas. I'll try and find the quote and put it here with an edit. Edit: It was posted on this board from another article. "Abron is an example of where one sport at the UA can help the other. The atmosphere at the football game was a definite influence on Abron"

My opinion, and I may be way wrong here... Our team is TIRED. SPENT. GASSED. POOPED. Going into the season, we knew Tramiel was gone and so was Mangrum, but that was OK, because we got Dom back as well as 3 other seniors who are some of the best players ever to suit up in Mean Green. The injured guy was Spencer, and he'll be back before conference starts, right? At least we still have some good depth with Shorter, and hey, Holmen is supposed to step up now! They started off on fire this season. The intensity the team showed in OOC was awesome (minus the only true "slip-up" game of the season this year at SHSU). Some of us saw McGhee fail and Alzee injured and began to worry. This left us a little short on the bench. We go out and take it to Texas Tech in one of my favorite all-time moments in the Super Pit, then we put a whipping on LSU in Baton Rouge, the likes of which they had not felt in quite some time (even against their SEC competition). This awesome start to the season had to be extremely taxing. I'm not sure what was going on in the guys' minds when conference season started... maybe they were in cruise control? Maybe they were still locked-in, but something changed physically? All that time without McGhee and Alzee began taking its toll, and by the way, where's Spencer? He could certainly be used to spell big George a little... We start seeing closer games, and poorer defensive effort from the team. Starting at MT and Troy, we see the guys not playing well on the road. Then, we get to Denver and get thrashed. The guys are apparently tired, but we chalk it up to travel issues and the altitude (which were certainly contributing factors). To me, where the guys really lost it was the pounding we took at home against FAU. Josh, Tristan, George and Dom usually step up in this type of game. We had a huge home win streak going. We trailed basically the whole game and our leader, Josh White scores 1 point! Then, we start hearing that Spencer will not return. What we see is what we get. Draw the line in the sand Col. Travis, you have no reinforcements coming. It continues until this weekend where the guys come out flat defensively against the worst team in the Belt and give up over 80 to them! This same team in January beat ULM by almost 20, and would have beaten them by 30 in November. It's so painful to watch the deterioration of this team during conference when we were at one point ranked in the top 10 in the mid-major poll. I really think the season has worn these guys out. It has nothing to do with coaching. It has nothing to do with effort (although Johhny disagreed at some point with Tristan's effort). I think the guys are just flat-out tired. I'm a pessimist, because I like to be prepared for the worst and pleasantly surprised at the better, but I'm expecting this team to maybe win 1 or 2 more games this season and possibly win 1 in the conf. tourney. Like I said, it's not a question of effort. I believe our guys WANT to win and are TRYING to win. I don't think there needs to be a "fire" lit under them, I don't think Johnny needs to run them ragged or anything either (as a matter of fact, that would be counter-productive). I just think they're tired, and that's too bad. Hats off to them. Josh, Tristan, George, Dom, and Shannon have been very fun to watch over their careers here. Again, maybe I'm totally wrong... I've been wrong before.

East FAU 11-3 19-9 MTSU 9-6 14-14 WKU 7-7 13-14 Troy 6-8 8-18 USA 5-9 11-14 FIU 4-10 9-17 West ASU 9-5 15-14 Denver 9-5 13-14 ULL 9-5 12-14 UALR 7-6 15-13 North Texas 6-7 17-9 ULM 2-13 7-22 Three way tie with a week to go in the West....pretty crazy.

Peach basket pod disappears, team falls apart. Coincidence?.......yeah, probably so.

I understand and hear what you are saying. Good D1 basketball players don't exactly grow on trees. Good D1 basketball players who have experience and can make an impact this season would be even tougher to find. I don't think 1 scholly would have made up for what we lost, but you're right, you don't know if you don't try. It's JJ's M.O. to hold on to a scholarship for someone deserving who might be a late qualifier. It's not a bad idea as a mid major.

Not trying to be contentious, I hope you know by now that I have a lot of respect for your opinion even when I don't share it... But having one open scholarship going into the school year, when you nearly closed on (at the very least) Armelin and Carmouche, doesn't strike me as a terrible tactical blunder. Rather than throwing it at any warm body still available, we had it in reserve to use for a potential midyear transfer. Knowing (as I know you do) that we were rumored to be in on at least 4 potential Big 12 transfers, NOT including actual midyear transfer Shawn Williams... I don't see having one open ship on a team that didn't seem to have a lot of minutes for anyone outside the 12 scholarship players on the roster as the school year began. McGhee was not an academic time bomb as far any of us knew. If ANYONE expressed any anxiety over his class performance, I don't remember reading it here or anywhere else that I check in on regularly. Given that he graduated high school and passed the NCAA clearinghouse with no issues, I can only imagine that whatever attitude or academic problems popped up in the first week of school were a surprise to the coaching staff as well. If we had actually sat on two ships, I'd probably be more upset about the depth situation right now. But for a team with seven scholarship seniors to have one open ship, given the rebuilding effort ahead and the potential reinforcements supposedly ready to transfer... That's no great outrage to me. Given that we missed out on at least four worthy scholarship athletes, it seems (both at the time and in hindsight) like a wise move under the circumstances. For anyone who is furious that we had one open scholarship entering the season... Just go ahead and pretend that Avery Redmond is/was on scholarship. And that the ship was now tied up for 3 more years. Because that may very well have been the talent level of anyone available to fill that scholarship at the time.

The softball team beat Northwestern State 5-1 and Centenary 11-2 today. They also beat Tennessee Tech last night 5-4. Their record is now back to 5-5 with the losses coming to (score in parentheses): #14 Oregon (12-4) #19 Stanford (5-2) #21 Nebraska (4-2) Oregon State (3-2) Northwestern (8-4) Those may have all been losses, but most were respectable. Our pitching is young right now (with the top 3 pitchers in innings being 1 sophomore and 2 freshmen), so hopefully they can settle in and do really well in the SBC. Louisiana-Lafayette is currently ranked #16, so it will not be easy.

Disgrace. Disgrace. Disgrace. Disgrace. Severe disappointment.

Ditto. I miss Bourbon Street. I miss North Texas. Mostly I miss North Texas being on Bourbon Street.

Good response. I want this guy to succeed, I want to team to be spectacular and win. We all do because we love UNT. But lets keep our heads and not say "this guy is the real deal" yet, lets see his product and see if it delivers. Every year we talked about Dodge was improving and how much better we were going to be. Lets see what his team is made of then we can give him his deserved credit.

Hindsight is 20/20. If you add Alzee Williams and Cam Spencer into the equation no one would be complaining about that scholarship. Alzee was injured right after the exibition game I believe, and for most of the year we actually thought Spencer would be able to return. At this point the scholarship issue is what it is, and I don't see it as the fault of Coach Jones. There are other things he may be at fault for, but we don't get to sit in the locker room, so we don't really know.

First, I am grateful that I made it up to Denton and back safely. But more than that I am grateful for all the guys who practice hard, study hard and play the game of basketball for UNT. I am proud of each and everyone of you. I know this season hasn't turned out the way any of us were expecting. I am sure no one is more disappointed then you guys. But it's not over. All of you have brought fun and excitement to the Pit along with some very good basketball. You have been to the Big Dance twice in four years and I will never forget that! You are my team and I am very proud of all of you! Hold your heads up high! You have nothing to be ashamed of!! Go Mean Green!

they have plenty to be ashamed of! for starters, they just lost to a 6, now 7, win team on their home court that they had dominated. they should also be ashamed of their defense...it's nonexistent. they gave up more than twice as many points as ulm scored in their last game. sorry, moral victories are not worth it. moral victories, losing by less than a touchdown, don't fly on the football board, why should they here? the way this senior laden team is playing is sad and inexcusable. they should be much better than this, but they aren't...don't know why. the only time that ulm scored more points this year was to union kentucky...pathetic! no excuse...damn sad...kinda reminds me of the ill-fated rice fball game...a loss like this should not occur.

Has it really come to this?

Sorry, I fail to believe a D1 coach can't teach D1 athletes to be proficient in a zone. Since I've never had the pleasure to meet you, I played basketball for years and was the son of a coach, so I do know a little something about the game. I really respect your knowledge and passion for the game, but I just don't think this team was ever as good as a lot of us, including me, thought it was. No leader, lack of discipline, and at times, gasp, poorly coached.

Shameful. Embarrassing.

well guess we do not need to worry about JJ leaving anytime soon for bigger schools. He can not beat the bottom feeders of the Sun Belt. Just sad to see this senior laden team to go to waste.

Nice. This season can't end fast enough. Rick

That could explain why he seems to play well coming off the bench.

I am happy with the win, but for us to pull out a win, at home, in the last minutes, against a sub .500 team still concerns me.

Our passing game and more importantly our down field passing game mainly worked off play action in Coach Dickey's offense. 3rd and 5 isn't a strong down for that. That's basically no mans land for us. It was a little crazy on the field watching a draw on 3rd and long but I will be damned if it didn't work every now and then. I look back on that and remember how close we were to a 10 win season it just hurts. Still one of the previous posts was absolutely right, the North Texas faithful came out in good numbers everytime for the bowl game. Cant wait to finally go back this year! Or maybe next.....but soon!

Welcome! Football will be better this coming season just because of the upgrade in coaching and some pretty good returning talent.

The secret to winning has been revealed!