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I take it you are an SMU fan? A few of points Id like to make about your post…. 1. The series record between SMU and UNT, while interesting and all, isnt relevant to the discussion at hand. 1922 was a long time ago. By my math (according to your data provided) UNT is 2-3 against SMU since 1989. That to me would be a more logical place to start the head to head comparison as far as Im concerned. It doesnt matter one iota who beat who back when leather helmets were all the rage. As an Iowa State fan I get this type of argument all the time. That ancient history looks good on paper, but in no way indicates that SMU would continue to win with that regularity going forward. In fact, the evidence indicates exactly the opposite. The teams have been basically equal for the last 20 years, DESPITE all of the handicaps UNT has to deal with, whether self inflicted or otherwise. 2. I think the fact that UNT is right in about the same position it was in (or probably worse) back when the SWC expansion talks were on going and the success of programs that were ask to join (during and even AFTER the SWC) shows the correct decision was made by the SWC to not invite UNT. This comment is also a bit of flawed logic. You are basically comparing apples to oranges. The lack of institutional support and supposed lack of athletic success you are posing as a reason the SWC didnt invite UNT is a direct result of the fact that they DIDNT get invited and not the other way around. I would argue that UNT would be in a position to be VERY competitive in any conference that would have them Conf-USA, MWC, WAC or even Big 12 (would need a bigger football stadium for this). The potential fanbase is there… the facilities are there… the local recruiting pool is there… Compare enrollments… SMU ~11k, UNT ~36 k… Football stadiums… SMU ~32k cap., UNT ~31.5k (old stadium?), basketball arenas… SMU ~9k, UNT ~10k. These are pretty comparable to me. What makes you so sure that UNT wouldnt be able to compete in Conf-USA? I would argue that Iowa State recruits a higher level of athlete BECAUSE of conference affiliation than would be possible in a lesser conference. Kids want to play on the big stage. They choose I-State over other programs closer to home because they want to play on TV, get a chance to stick it to Texas for snubbing them, etc. Do you honestly think that UNT wouldnt recruit better if they were in a better conference? That is a bit naïve. In fact with their alumni base and enrollment, they would be in a position to be one of the better teams in Conf-USA (for example). SMU has benefitted from being in a "higher prestige" conference and still only managed to beat UNT 3 out of 5 times in the last 20 years. Yet - here you are...

So your solution is that UNT needs a plan and they need to implement that plan in the future? Why didn't the rest of us think of that? Saying that a plan is needed is not the same thing as actually having a plan. You would be a good university president. You have mastered the ability to say a lot without saying anything at all.

In the future, can we pick something shorter? The War and Peace post at the top of every page is really whipping me.

It’s a chicken and egg argument… success brings fans or fans bring success. Both will work. I don’t know the politics involved in all of the past conference shuffling involving SMU, TCU, or UNT so I can’t comment on whether or not UNT was ”jobbed” by not being invited. I am simply trying to point out that past performance isn’t necessarily an accurate indicator of future success… especially in athletics. Each school doesn’t exist in a vacuum. Everything is relative… success or lack thereof. My main point is this: From an outsider’s perspective UNT has all of the key ingredients needed to succeed, except a hugely supportive fanbase. Sustained winning will take care of that. I’m not talking about 3 or 4 years of decent records… I’m talking about dominating the conference. I have no doubt that North Texas has the potential to absolutely rule the Sunbelt Conference. Heck – given a chance NOW (not 10 years ago) they could be a major factor in Conf-USA, the MWC, etc. Honest question for you. If given a spot in Conference USA do you think UNT would be able to win there? I’m going to go out on a limb and say that you think they wouldn’t. Correct me if I’m wrong. I think given the chance they would be a major player provided the administration was committed to winning. Everything else is already there. I keep going back to I-State, but the parallels are uncanny. Our season ticket base was around 25k when Dan McCarney was hired. When he left we had ~35k football season ticket holders. Jack Trice stadium only has 42,500 permanent seats. That is a HUGE boost to the athletic department. In Dan’s tenure our football facilities were massively improved: 1. Replaced the crappy Astroturf with a natural surface 2. Built the athletics complex building in the north endzone (new locker rooms, coach’s offices, etc.) 3. Built a press box. Believe it or not, but we didn’t even have a basic press box when Dan got to I-State 4. Installed a large jumbotron video board in the south endzone 5. Built the football only indoor practice facility 6. Built an academic center for football (mainly) 7. Built football player dorms. Essentially an apartment complex with 24 hour cafeteria for football players only. Pretty sweet place actually… I attribute our exponential increase in success to these improvements. Build the facilities to get the coaches and players. Then they win. This brings in more fans. More money comes in and facilities can be improved again…. etc… on and on… UNT has the facilities and coach to do this now. I don't get where the SMU arrogance is coming from...

I have a quick question for you folks... Who would you guys consider your biggest conference rival? Being the only team from Texas in the conference you don't have an obvious "team to hate". Everybody has to have some team they like to kick in the junk extra hard. For obvious reasons I think the Iowa Hawkeyes need to go down in flames everytime they play a sporting event. On that note and for the record.. Hayden Fry is the devil to most Iowa State fans He took the Hawks from 20 losing seasons in a row and being the 2nd team in the state behind ISU to national prominence. Don't much care for that guy... lol He got Iowa winning while Iowa State went from having Johnny Majors and Earl Bruce as coaches to Donnie freakin' Duncan and Jim Walden. We sucked for the next 20 years (until Dan Mac)... and are still trying to catch up. Dan McCarney beat Hayden's Iowa team in Iowa City the last year Fry was coaching there and went on to win 4 more in a row over Iowa... He has a winning record against Kirk Ferentz and Iowa doesn't suck. He'll get your guys to play ball against anybody... The Kansas Jayhawks are probably next in line for me. In basketball I-State and Kansas have had some real doozies. The only other team to win the Big 12 conference basketball championship outright more than I-State is Kansas. Anywhoo... Who do y'all hate? GMG!!! and Go 'Clones!!!!

It was nothing too ground breaking. He had great things to say about Coach Mac, Chico, and Dodge. He is for sure getting a medical redshirt, making him a redshirt sophomore next year. Says he's looking forward to another quarterback competition. Says they have full expectations to winning the Sun Belt and said they'd be dissapointed if they don't win 8, 9, 10 games next year. Talked about the new field a little bit. Says they needed someone to light a fire under the defense and keeping Canales was like a 2 for 1 deal. He says all the QB's hang out together, and a QB competition just makes them all better. He would have hip hop/classic rock blaring in his truck, apparently into Lil' Wayne. The leg is doing well. There's a few other talking points, but he was a really nice guy and easy to talk to. He'd been committed to coming on with us for a while but we waited until the year was over for obvious reasons.

This may work...

The Pac 10 hasn't had as many two team BCS years because that conference has sucked. The Big 10 would be a better comparison. They routinely get two teams in the BCS and their conference bowl record has not been good. Just because UNT has been shown little support from alums in the past doesn't mean they will continue to be indifferent. Is that the argument you are making? That there is no hope and UNT should just give up? Seems to be what you are saying. Dan McCarney changed the culture at Iowa State, and my money is saying he will do the same at UNT. Mark my words. Dan McCarney is the perfect hire. All he needs to do is get an additional 1 in 10 UNT alums to buy in and UNT will be at that proverbial next level. With even a small increase in pulse - UNT will win, and win alot.

I see the round robin differently. It will increase the leagues chances of getting two teams in the BCS. Fact of the matter is that the lower tier teams will be the ones absorbing the five additional losses, not the likes of OU or UT. True, they will have to play an additional road game in a place like Ames, Iowa in the winter, but still… By going round robin they avoid playing a championship game. This game automatically gives one of the two top teams another loss. In addition, by having the championship game, it is possible for the top two teams to meet TWICE in the same year.

NT's biggest rival for the last several years has been Lee Jackson.

read this board long enough and you'll be convinced that we have several hated rivals: smu, UT, The Dallas Morning News, Southlake Carroll High School, The Green Brigade, UNT-Dallas, EA Sports, the city of Denton, local sporting good retailers, rivals.com, Ramon Flanigan, Daddy Dumpsalot... unfortunately, no hatred towards our conference opponents.

We might be in a similar situation in the near future. With Iowa in the non-con every year that makes for a brutal schedule. Nine Big 12 teams plus Iowa. There is talk of dropping the Iowa/I-State series... hope it doesn't happen, but could see why it would. This year we played 6 teams that were ranked in the top 10 at one point during the year plus Texas Tech, Northern Illinois, and K-State... yeesh...

UNT has an obvious hated rival: UNT. We have met the enemy and he is us.

Full Story... http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=5890634 What you shouldn't miss 6. Saturday: Jackson State at North Texas -- My preseason SWAC pick versus my Sun Belt West Division pick. I have the Mean Green in this one. Who's hot: North Texas (7-1) I like the Mean Green nickname, but I love the way they play even more. Last season in the Sun Belt championship game, North Texas beat Troy 66-63. It has carried its winning ways into this season. (more in article...)

I am going to admit that I didn't read all this, but I needed to throw some things in here. 1. Way too long and not well organized. Even Plum gives us some paragraph breaks. 2. Shift key. I can tell you know how to use it, but you may be confused on when. 3. Take a break on the ellipses. I feel like there may be a subliminal message in there with Morse Code. If you are going to write a novel, try to help us read the thing and make some sense of it.

Plumm, I love you to death. Let me just say that up front. Now, I am always amused by how you can take any thread...literally any thread...and spin it into one of your talking points. If I ever run for public office you are my PR guy. No interview necessary, you're the guy.

Toastmasters is a good organization for those who have difficulty speaking effectively. You might consider looking into whether they could also help one's writing; I think Quoner had some useful suggestions for you. I have found that by skipping down to your last paragraph, I can avoid reading material easily found on collegefootballdatawarehouse or wikipedia. Your posts have been useful lately when I've had problems sleeping, but most people prefer a concise writing style if they're interested in what a person has to say. If you'd look around at what others are posting here, you'd find many of them try to be at least somewhat entertaining.

You make some very valid points… I understand the OOC scheduling issue all too well. We’ll play Iowa and nine Big 12 games every year now. That makes it incredibly difficult to schedule games with other local (relatively) teams on a regular basis. Northern Iowa fans accuse us of ducking them too. Playing home and homes with Utah, UConn, Army, etc. dropped them from the non-con. However, since Nebraska is leaving we have UNI on the schedule going forward to replace the gate money (UNI games are always sell-outs). That said, from an outsiders perspective, I can see why there is animosity here towards SMU. UNT has played you guys even up on the field for the last 20 years (when you play each other). I don’t know why you are surprised when your condescension elicits the responses you get. Interesting discussion... One thing I do know is that all fanbases are basically the same.

That's what she said.

Since I'm now a Mean Green fan, it would seem a good team for me to despise would be SMU... Consider it done. Hopefully the NCAA gives them the death penalty again on Auburn's behalf.

I feel like if we have one it is Troy at least in Football.

I'm way more excited now than I was during the conference win streak, because at the time I still didn't see us getting any better than the level we currently were. I loved the streak and the bowl win, but we failed to compete outside of the Sun Belt, our facilities were garbage, and we still had no real sign of commitment from the administration.

Just a suggestion, but I think it might be nice to get a GoMeanGreen.com section at the new stadium. Of course, the Athletic Department would not give us a section for ourselves, so in order to make this happen we would have to organize and select our seats on our own so that we are all sitting together. My "vision" for this would be about 100+ of us fans who don't mind standing through a game, vocal and spirited, kind of like a mini student section. Good idea, or worst idea ever?

Im not saying that our coaches arent good, im just saying we need to stop dwelling on the past and who we think should stay. From what I remember Dodge fired everyone from Dickey's staff. Its hard to keep assistants with a new coaching staff because they want their guys and who they can trust. The point is that they still get the top recruits, we jump out of our seat if we get a 3 star. I guarantee you now that they are changing conferences they will get higher rating player. You are correct on its not all about the star rating, its about the coaching staff maximizing their ability. But having those top tier talent doesnt hurt either. Gandy didnt even recruit Dunbar, he came here because of Coach George

I hate to break the bad news to you, but that usage calls for "exists", not "exist". However, that doesn't go directly to your assertion that Rick Perry doesn't know that UNT "exist". If he didn't know that UNT "exist", why did he have the athletic fee legislation rewritten in the manner that he did before he would sign it? And in case you believe that Rick Perry does not concern himself with "how UNT is run or who is running it", could you tell us who nominates candidates for the Board of Regents? And nothing in any of that explains the arrogance with which you long windedly provided no "facts to check" other than your opinions, which like Rick Perry's economic analyses, always cherry pick a time frame to suit a preordained conclusion. And you still haven't answered the question of whether you support the university in any way, attendance at anything, any kind of support, other than your lengthy and self adulatory diatribes under your various screen names.

ladies and gentleman.....our new post of the week!

And still enough seats remain for their fanbase.

Did our Emoticons get into the steroids?

"They" in your statement means SMU, TCU and Baylor which verbalized opposition to us entering the conference in late 70's after Houston had been allowed in..... Royal and Broyle {UT and Arkansas) wanted to allow us in and make the conference ten teams... the others did not say much either way but seemed to lean in our direction... SMU lead to opposition against us... What they did really changed the direction of UNT which was very good in football and basketball at the time. Those of us were already UNT alums at that time (late 70's) absolutely depise them and also many of their "put downs" which appear in local papers and TV reports rather regularly. I wish them no success or good things.... and they are the only Texas university I never root for against anyone.... I support 0-70 against them every game.

Granted, my history as a UNT fan is rather brief in the grand scheme of things, but from 99-present, have we ever had more to be excited about as UNT football fans? I was caught up in the Todd Dodge hysteria, and truly believed he was set to change the face of the program. Even convinced some fellow alumns to eagle up for some season tickets and MGC club donations. But as excited as I was, it was more hope and blind faith than it was true belief and assurance. Coach Mc represents the most decorated coach we've had since possibly Hayden Fry? They guy's coached on the biggest stages of college FB in the Big XII (X) and the SEC. Our new stadium is no longer a dream, but a tribute rising from the 17th and 18th fairways of my childhood? How impressive did it look from across the street at the Fouts Finale, definately had every K State fan I spoke with interested and admiring. I have alums of A&M and Tech telling me how impressed they were with our coaching decision, which caught me off guard. But did anybody notice the quotes from Bob Stoops, Hayden Fry, Urban Meyer, Bill Snyder and Barry Alvarez in the president's email on the coaching hire? They were effusive in there praise of Coach Mc. Forgive me if the green colored Kool-Aid flows a little freely, it's been a long season and I am steadfast an eternal optimist, but have we ever had more to be excited about as fans after such a dysmal performance? Is anyone else feeling like we truly have reasons, not just hope and alumnist faith, to expect more from this program and this team? To expect to compete in our non-conference games and actually win 2-3 of them? To actually dominate our sunbelt competition and return to the days where the SunBelt title had to pass thru Denton? For the first time ever, it feels like UNT has finally committed the time, money and emotion into building a program, the right way, from the ground up. And while it's taken nearly a decade and 3 head coaches, it finally feels like we're on the verge of doing something special and re-defining UNT football in it's entirety. Damon

I was around for 1-AA and the Big West Days. In fact, that's when I was in school and went to every game. Even during the run, you could look at the bowl win against the Bearcats as the absolute highest high the program had. And that's how I felt at the time. Tailgaiting is great, but it's nothing like real coaching salaries and a new stadium. I have serious doubts that MOST of any group thought we were on our way to anything significant playing in the Sun Belt without competitive salaries for coaches and poor facilities. There's a big college football world out there, and we are just now scratching at the surface of having a real program.

Huge changes since the DD era (see: 24K turning out for this years home opener for a 5-33 team), but these little inconvenient facts don't help your "UNT will always suck" argument, so you ignore them. Come talk to me at the next UNT home game that you attend, I'll give you a beer and we can continue this discussion. See you in..... 2016?

Keeping the focus on SMU... They had 16k for their home opener after a bowl winning season. We had 24K for our home opener after 5-32 the previous 3 years. Imagine what the numbers would have been in Denton had we had similiar success last year. Ignore and discount it if you want, but having 97K almuni in the DFW area is huge for UNT. Win, and you will draw their interest. Also, many of the media types in the DFW area are grads of the UNT radio//television degree program. Give them something to be positive about, and they will be happy to give you some free publicity. Hell, even Craig Miller had nice things to say about his old school after the K St game. But you just stay on the old SMU band wagon, Todge, it's a good place for you.

Maybe not the WHOLE game. I'd just like to be able to stand on 3rd down without someone yelling at me to sit.

checkfacts as he is better known has been a long time troll against denton and unt. he flunked out of unt and is an smu fan at heart.

UNT is a much bigger school than all of the ones you mention that would have wanted to be in the SWC, except for New Mexico. But New Mexico never wanted to be in the SWC -- it belonged to the WAC and then the MWC. The reason that UNT fans are bitter about being excluded from the SWC is that our school had the best argument for being included, out of all the possible schools that could have been added back in the day. Our enrollment, geography and football success under Hayden Fry justified it. Yet for whatever reason, we got screwed over. Because of that snub and the disastrous decision of our leadership to drop to I-AA, North Texas has been a football nobody for decades. We're hoping that has finally ended forever with the new stadium and the McCarney hire.

They may be details, but they are not minor. Perhaps to keep it on topic, would you want your football program to self-identify as within a city of over a million, or as within a town of less than 25,000 that has no place to grow. Then think about why your stadium may look somewhat emptier than you'd like, and whether you wish to project an image of being superior to virtually everyone within that city of over a million.

In the Belt, not a one. Historical: New Mexico State If North Texas and Texas State ever end up in the same conference, it'll be an instant rivalry (unlike one with TCU or SMU).

I was giving some reasons why recruits might choose SMU over UNT is all. I like UNT. I grew up in Denton and took some classes at UNT. I'm not trying to bash UNT. There is really no need to attack me.

I would say that we're developing a basketball rivalry with Western Kentucky, but they never come here.

This is a great post... I can relate... Cyclone fans hate the Des Moines Register, white helmets, the script cyclones logo, the birdnado logo, the I-State logo, red pants, white pants, gold pants, night games, day games, 11 am games, the Big 12 tv deal, fans who stand all game, fans who sit all game, etc... awesome stuff...

No disrespect to anyone who see's this current time as being greater than our bowl years. But if that is so, then I suspect you were not around during the 1-AA, 1-A independent and Big West years. Because I and the rest here who were can tell you, once we got RV here and he started to open up the door to spirit/tailgating etc..., and we routed Baylor and then beat the C-USA co-Champions on National TV and read in Dave Campbell's Texas Football that North Texas was "getting the most done with the least than any other program in Texas" that most thought we were finally on our way. Rick

Good things are happening for UNT's football and overall athletic programs!

+1

Yeah thats the constant topic of discussion on the short bus.

Not discounting any of the above, but even as a student, there was very little excitement for the conference streak. The win over Tech was a huge moment, but not something that fostered long term excitement and Baylor was terrible when we beat them. I'm not saying this is our biggest moment, or greatest period of time, just saying that I've never been more excited about the direction and shape our entire football program is taking. The year we had two national rushing champions returning to play in the same backfield we also still had no passing attack and nothing other than 2 players to get excited about, if I'm not mistaken (Scott Hall). Lance may not have a rushing title to his name, but is there a more exciting RB to watch? Dude consistenly puts up solid #'s in a pass first offense. We also proceeded to go 2-9 that year and 3-8 the next year, ending our conference streak and seasons of winning football... I don't remember being excited or as optimistic then as I am now.

I was just as surprised hearing Russia and Qatar but why not give it a chance? The Sheikhs of Qatar are making a conscious effort to do there what they did in Dubai. And Qatar does not have Sharia Law. Don't judge a book by its cover. And if you don't want to go you certainly don't have to. There will be plenty of other people that will go, have a great time and not think twice about it.

Cool...been a way from the board and I come back and you're still a douchey moron. Makes me really feel home.

So am I reading this wrong, or did the NCAA just give the OK on player representation and pay-for-play so long as the players themselves don't know about it?