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I understand the Dickey comparison you've been consistently making around here lately, but this one is a bit of a stretch even by the increasingly liberal standards used in this situation, don't ya think? Dickey had 3 more wins at this point in his career than Dodge - including 4 wins over FBS teams with winning records, including a win over a 10 win Boise State team, a win @ Texas Tech in Lubbock (and another near-miss @ Tech on a last minute fumble), 3 road wins against FBS opponents, and 10 losses by 20 or more. Dodge, by the same measure of time, has YET TO DEFEAT a FBS team with a winning record, has 1 road win over a FBS team (2 win Ball State - the WKU win was over a provisional FCS team), and has 14 losses by 20 or more. Not to mention that after the 3 year period in question, Dodge has 31 losses to Dickey's 25. At this point, Dickey has coached exclusively in the Big West (so no "cream puff SBC" argument that is so questionable to begin with) and had quite probably the worst facilities and game day experience in the country. No athletic center. No tailgating. No new weight room. No hope of a new stadium. No strong support in the AD's office. No student athletic fee. None of the bevy of advantages this staff has had, more than canceling out any highly questionable argument about caliber of competition.... and yet even in that staff's worst times, they significantly outperformed this one. I'm not arguing your passion, and I'd love to see a big win at Army and a miraculous job saving turnaround.... but the insinuation that Dodge winning Saturday somehow puts him ahead of Dickey's pace at any point is just not true.

the glenn beck of the gmg boards

Then, there's also the fact that despite the miraculous turnaround... We still fired Dickey at the first semi-viable opportunity. It wasn't exactly roses and sunshine, and the streak wasn't enough to make people (administratively or in the fan base) forget the overall track record. And Plumm (among others) was adamant that that turnaround wasn't enough to merit the man keeping his job, that RV should have followed through on his termination instincts and forced Dickey out BEFORE that miracle run. That it would have been better for the long term health and ultimate success of our program. That even though a miracle DID happen that saved his job, Dickey was still a godawful coach who nobody wanted and only managed to "succeed" against our terrible conference mates and a very rare OOC game, usually low-grade competition. If I had it in my signature, this is where I'd defer and point out that if a Dodge miracle DOES happen, it will now have to come almost entirely against our conference mates and possibly/hopefully an OOC game against low-grade competition. I, too, still hope to see Dodge turn the ship around and pull off what he needs to accomplish to keep his job (and, by extension, get us back on track as a football program). But even more than that, I'd love to see a little intellectual honesty here, and perhaps an admission that we're playing by a completely different set of rules then what was vocally (remember the rants about "fishin' with Bobby Ray"?) set forth just 4 short years ago. Especially in light of the relative track records and circumstances leading up to the Moments Of Truth for each coach, as so astutely put forth by CaribbeanGreen. One more time: I want this season to finish with 7 or more wins, and I want for all of this to be a pointless waste of virtual breath. But if it wasn't good enough to make people forgive and forget the start (not the end, which had enough ugliness in the Flanagan situations alone to justify Dickey's termination) of the last guy's tenure... Why would it be good enough now? I don't ask for myself. Because if and when Dodge does start winning, I will very quickly and happily put all the godawful shame of the past 3 and a quarter seasons in the past and embrace the wins and the coach leading us to them. But I still remember what people said 4 years ago when they looked back on Dickey's inauspicious start. What does it say when the same people are now using that as the benchmark for potential success?

[Rare, non-satirical post]: Why don't you go up to Brandon after the game and tell him to his face how much you feel personally offended by the losing he's contributing to? Seriously man. This board has seen thousands of ways to gripe about the results over the last 4 years, but you have found a way to to do so on a thread about a person who grew up into a grown-ass-man and embodies values we should all hope to manifest in our lives. Put down the shotgun approach and pick up the sniper rifle if you're going to use the forum for target practice.

Questions.. too many questions. I think we are finally at the cross-roads with this team, just like one during the 2001 season. Many of us didnt give DD or that 2001 team a shot at winning against MTSU. Dustin Dean told me they started winning because they felt they had to save Darrell Dickey's job... even though DD told them not to think about that. I wonder what it takes for a team to play like that BEFORE the axe gets sharpened? I had hoped the Rice game would be a "MUTS-like" turn-around. These players gave everything they had in the Rice game, and I was proud of the fight they put up, but did they believe they could win? I honestly now think the difference in this team and DD's old teams must be coaching. I know we still have issues with kicking, dropped balls and etc..., but there has to be something else missing? Do we have as much or more talent on the field today than we did back then? DD wasnt a fan of closed practices and secret plays. He convinced his players to step up and show everyone they could win, no matter who's watching or the distractions. The fans and Alums stood right next to those players on the practice fields for all of those years. The coaches understood everyone played a part in that team's success, and we all felt like we were a part. Jamario Thomas once ran a sweep right into the alums on the sideline during practice, then looked up at us and said "That'll be a touchdown in Colorado!" We laughed, but we also believed him. We believed because he believed. Darrell Dickey certainly had his flaws. We all know what happened at the end, and how he exited this program. My point is that it was the head coach who motivated players like Chris Hurd(walk-on), Brandon Kenndy(too short), Darrell Daniels(under-sized), Kevin Galbreath(no break-away speed), Scott Hall(other recruiters considerred him a safety), Patrick Cobbs (too small) and others to play with heart and grit every down. None of those guys were five-star athletes, but ALL of those guys were very successful under Dickey. That is a head coach who knew something. THAT something is what is missing from this team. Is that something tha can be taught?, or do we fall under the "we are who we are" banner? I guess we'll know more tomorrow afternoon, one way or another. Still too many questions... GMG!!!

We could use a month without seeing women's basketball in Denton during the season

Great...now tell me what you are personally doing to help the program? How much of your time, talent and dollars go to help the program move forward? If you want to be the "get in your face" guy, I want to know what makes you think you are the one who has any right to be that guy. Do you buy season tickets? Have you donated to the Stadium Fund? Are you buying Club Seats? Do you talk to others and ask that they also donate and purcase season tickets? Do you actaully attend games? Do you bring guests with you to the game to introduce them to UNT? Do you donate back to your academic dept and volunteer to help with their activities? Are you a member of the Mean Green Club? Do you attend Alumni functions, and are you an annual and/or life member of the UNT Alumni Association? Do you talk to potential recruits and HS coaches about UNT and the benefits of playing "close to home"? Do you help recruit students for UNT at HS College Fairs? I know you didn't help with the GMG Bowl scholarship efforts last year. Come on, self-appointed "in your face guy", list out your qualifications so we can all see who will be "in the face" of those with perhaps a somewhat different attitude about the whole thing and WHO actually do all the above and more to try to help. You are more than welcome to get in my face anytime you think your self-appointed self thinks necessary as long as your mouth is not bigger than your support for the program...and I am not just talking about $$$$ support. One other thing...what makes you think you care any more than anyone else about building a winning program? And, good luck with that...I am certain everyone will welcome your help and support.

Thank you for your courage. Now, please accept this -1 from a Rangers fan due to your admission of openly rooting against the Rangers. It's like spanking your child. It hurts the parent more than the child. I still love you though.

Well then, don't make your first 14 posts about firing the head coach and nothing else.

The WAC means nothing to me. Neither does the SBC. What matters is winning and winning against schools that people care about. Lots of you cry about how we could have been Boise or whatever. Yeah, we could have, if we continued our unbeaten run in the SunBelt, gave BCS schools a scare now and then and were in the NO bowl every year. Sure it helps if you have politicians pulling strings for you in Austin. Sure it helps if you are ideally located in a major market with a crapload of big money donors. That doesn't always get you a sweet spot. Ask TCU, SMU, and Rice. Baylor lucked out twice. If they don't start pulling a Texas Tech and upset UT and OU every once in a while they might not get lucky a third time. I'm not bashing conference realignment talk -- it can be interesting. I am knocking the weird, misplaced feeling of entitlement that we have. 'North Texas deserves to be in the Big 12 because we are North Texas' is poor reasoning. So maybe we tone down the 'What are we going to do when we win the lottery?' talk and maybe embrace regional rivals like Guadalupe River State - Home of the drunken tubers and ootsah -- the fightin' commuters. I agree that there is no difference between the scrubby WACK schools and the scrubby SBC guys. There will be no difference between them and TxSt and UTSA either, except they are closer and easier to get up for -- which is more entertaining, financially beneficial, and potentially ego-boosting.

I also sit in section C. I sit amoung a hornets' nest of the disgruntled. By simply paying attention, over time, I cant just about tell you who are some of the parents, grand parents, ex-players (from anywhere), coaches wives, etc....because they are the ones that keep their damn mouths shut !!! Yelling out insults directly at a player, coach, etc in front of their families is just classless...oh yeah, I know I know, you have a right to be classless !!

Good work, Brett Vito. And a salute to a real hero Brandon McCoy: http://www.dentonrc.com/sharedcontent/dws/drc/sports/stories/DRC_unt-mccoy_0917.fefb785b.html

Neither Texas State nor UTSA bring more dollars in viewers, bowl interest or visitors to the current school gates to offset the cost of dividing the current SBC revenue plate by two or even one more just yet. Even adding a SBC championship game doesn't generate more money than dividing the pot reduces it for each school right now. Also the major knock on the Belt was it was a "starter" conference after adding Florida Atlantic straight from the FCS ranks without them being a previous member. We had to add them, plus get FIU who was already a member for other sports to move to FBS ball for us to stay a conference. It's tough for Texas State and UTSA, but it doesn't make sense for the other SBC schools to hurt themselves for the next three to five years while these programs grow. The WAC needs them just to survive and thus the WAC must take them now. Thus, both make sense to the WAC but not to the SBC.

To be fair there are only a few SMU fans.

I wonder if this guy even attended UT

Let's hope the folks in white coats drag you away soon. Posting your $%#@ in a thread about a young man like this deserves nothing less than a straight jacket.

Bold statement, since so many used to audition for that role daily.

Regardless of your politics (granted I think most posters on this board lean to the right as is) this is awesome for UNT. Having a former President speak at our campus, regardless of approval ratings, helps in our quest for national recognition as a university, IMHO.

The make or break games were last year. This thing is broke.

I hate the Wave, but I don't know if I hate it as much as this guy... maybe I do. There's nothing that says... "Hey players we are supposed to be supporting, we're bored and dont give a crap about what you're doing. We need to create our own entertainment"... better than "The Wave". Total idiocracy. I just wish the cheerleaders and whoever those dudes are in the wranglers & white shirts would recognize 3rd & 4th down for OUR team is a time to be quiet, and 3rd & 4th down for the opposition is time to get rowdy. PLEASE!

Wow, pay attention much? Did we wear them last year when we played you guys?

I wasn't referring to just this one post, but a series of similar over the past week or so.

If we beat Army, it will have taken only TDodge's 3'rd game of his make/break season to get his 1'st win whereas it was DD's 6'th game of the 2001 season (which was also his make/break season) before that team had its first win. DD went on to save his job in 2001 with a 5 & 6 record plus a NO's Bowl appearance versus Colorado State. Also......a win over Army will change the entire complexion of this board's topics & threads come Sunday. Beat Army! GMG!

no shiat sherlock!

Why do you start this stuff? Why not putting your energy and excitement into the positive.....like UNT beating Army?

I wonder why Wright Waters isn't considering TSU and UTSA as serious options to join the belt. It really won't make the conference worse than it already is and personally I would like to see a good rivalry going with TSU.

I'm here, work keeps me from posting during the day. The meeting is great, but it is nothing really new. We've known that the WAC was going to need to reload, and reload fast, if they want to survive as a conference. If the WAC can survive the departure of these teams then Bobcatfans are going to be lucky as we are one of the few teams in their 'footprint' that is ready to go. The other schools normally mentioned along Texas State include Cal Poly, UC-Davis, Sac State, Portland State, Montana, and UTSA. Poly and Davis just signed on as football-only members of the Big Sky and it does not appear that they will be leaving any time soon. Montana has the fanbase and success in FCS to warrant a move, but they are not likely at this time. Sac is already an affiliate member of the WAC for some sports, maybe they will pair up with Portland and bolster the west. However, like someone already mentioned, FCS teams can't make a move until June 30 because of the Moratorium. Even if it wasn't for the Moratorium, all of the teams listed with the exception of UTSA is playing football right now. I would think that there is some discussion that if an invite was coming, hold off, see how the candidates do in the FCS playoffs, and then invite after the season is done. Once we accept a WAC bid, we forfeit any chances at a conference championship (or Automatic Playoff bid). I started coming on this board and the SBC board when our "Drive" was taking off because I hoped that we might join UNT in the SBC. I liked the idea of moving up to FBS, and still having an instate rival. It currently looks like the SBC is not interested in taking us and the WAC may be our only opportunity. Even if we don't end up in the same conference, I hope we still play regularly.

Based on recent history: We will immediately give up a huge play (probably for a TD) in one of Army's first three plays. Then, the defense will calm down, and our offense will begin to move the ball with some consistency. Finally, we will overtake them in the fourth quarter and grasp a small, tenuous lead. However, with their backs against the wall, Army will put together a scoring drive with ease and retake the lead. With two or three minutes to go 90 yards (there will be a kick return penalty) we will have to rely on the passing game to respond with a TD of our own. However, the drive will end dismally with a penalty/sack/turnover, and we will all bemoan how we couldn't quite get it done despite playing well enough to win. Dunham will sound epically depressed during the postgame show, and Dodge--with a hoarse, strained voice--will point to several key mistakes that cost the game. On the bright side, we will statistically dominate Army in terms of total yards, first downs, and TOP. This will give us some "optimism" heading into next week despite yet another loss.

stop it, just stop it, enough with with the shoulda coulda woulda. snap out of it.

It is illustrative, but it saddens me, that you guys are so beaten down that you are happy to wait around for other schools to grow up. Maybe you would have us go back to SLC so you can play teams in state. Didn't we just play a team in state? (Wow that was a great time.) Get some dignity.

Dontworry, if we can't join the league, lamar, Georgia state, and jax state will be right around the corner. Or app state

Plumm, I really have no idea what you just meant by that. You think TCUs stadium location is bad? What socio-economic climate are they "seemedly" pandering to?

great post--those two startups down to the south COULD turn in to great in-state rivals within the confines of the SBC. I think folks here get scared of giving those schools an advantage, but they forget that we have been blackballed that way for decades here in the state. It just seems ironic that we look down at Texas State, yet we complain incessantly about SMU and others looking down on us. Imagine, just for a moment, how cool it would be to have rivals in the state of Texas. We would get a trip to one of the best areas to visit in the state every year. I can assure that recruits' families in this state would be more thrilled to see their sons play Texas State than South Alabama, just as they would enjoy going to San Antonio for a game instead of Miami. If we cannot get into CUSA or MWC, then the SBC is just going to be our home for a long time to come. It would help our league to get some more Texas exposure. And, I will say this about those two upstarts. If they both do go the WAC and have success over the course of the next five years, someone in one of those coveted conferences that we would love to be in, will give them a call about joining. It all depends on attendance and support, but those untapped markets are going to be real attractive to somebody one day. I just think the SBC could do worse than to invite them in once they become FBS programs.

Having San Antonio and San Marcos as destinations would be good for us.

So the WAC will be: Hawaii Idaho La. Tech Utah St. New Mexico St. San Jose St. Texas St. UTSA Throw out Hawaii, Idaho, and SJSU. Add UNT, Ulala, ULM and Ark St. If this is the case, I'm all for it. UNT Ulala ULM Ark. St. La. Tech Utah St. New Mexico St. Texas St. UTSA

This outside observer thinks that there are SOME things gained by firing a coach in mid-season. The most obvious is that the search for a new coach can officially being sooner. To conclude that this is a gain requires that we assume that having more time to make a decision leads to a better outcome than having less time. Sometimes this is true, sometimes it is not (I'm looking at my alma mater here: hiring Bobby Ross after a mid-season firing of Todd Berry was NOT a good decision). The next most obvious is that it can help cure any "poison" caused by doubts about the head coach's future. If he's fired, then all doubts about his future with the program are eliminated. Of course, you're really just exchanging that doubt for others. Lots of others. The third thing that quickly pops to mind is that the firing sends a signal -- win (and do it while meeting other stated goals) or you will not have a job -- and makes it clear to everyone that the administration is serious about the athletic program. Of course, the signal intended to be sent might (will) be misinterpreted by some (many). The only other good things I can think of really only apply in cases of gross misconduct or bad behavior by the coach, and you guys don't have to worry about that. If you accept that there are SOME good things that come out of firing mid-season, then it becomes a question of which "goods"/"bads" outweigh which "bads"/"goods"... ...and I think it's rare that the "goods" of a mid-season firing outweigh the "bads".

wow....horrible schedule....a month on the road??? crazy

The 94 feet of heat will translate to any court.

I agree completely that Dodge should be given every opportunity to win his 7 games. That's the deal he was promised, and even if the losses are frustrating, I believe Dodge should have the opportunity to try. However, I think it may be in the University's and football program's best interest to let Dodge go in the middle of the season if 6 wins becomes unattainable. (I say 6 wins because I could see RV giving Dodge another year with 6 wins, even if the deal is for 7 - especially with the injuries and some close losses.) I am advocating a mid-season coaching change if necessary partially based on the debacle we had with Dickey. I'm in no way suggesting Dodge would march the team out in black uniforms - I believe he's a classy guy with integrity. However, I think it would be very difficult for the players and coaches if Dodge were to become a lame duck. You'd have a lot of challenges with conflicting loyalties, and I think it would really hurt our recruiting. If Dodge is let go during the season, it allows the University to start the new coaching search sooner and get someone in as quickly as possible. Since Dodge had to deal with a considerably shortened recruiting season during his first year (I know, it was partially of his own doing), I think he might even agree. All this being said... I really hope Dodge is able to pull it out and bring us some wins to finish out Fouts.

Many of these complaints simply "go away" when the new stadium is built and opened. Now, the web-site, well, that is another matter, but don't dare mention on GMG.com who might be responsible for some of that "lovely" site-work. The folks that really should be looking into this sort of thing seem to get a pass.....

Army 31 UNT 21 I'll stick to my original picks for wins and losses. I had this game as a loss initially and see no reason to change that prediction. Unfortunately, Rice was supposed to be a win. Hope I'm wrong!

north texas leads with 4 minutes left until a special teams gaffe. we lose by 3. same story, different opponent. what ifs.

You mean we stole someone from TCU, that higher profile school in the Metroplex. HoopmanX must be perplexed.

True, but if UTSA could open with Larry Coker there's no reason to assume UNT has to settle for high school coaches and obscure FBS assistants. There are only around 120 head coaching jobs in FBS college football. A big name who is tired of being out of the game might look at the new stadium and the softness of the Sun Belt and think he could do something in Denton.

Jimmy Johnson.

Good point. That's why organizations like the ATM Foundation presents the aggie athletic department a $1 million+ check at halftime. Helps pay for those types of head coaches. UNT alumni on the other hand..........What was the last MG Club count this year? I'll check the Rice - UNT game program.

A coach with D1/FBS experience, who can bring in D1/FBS assistants. And a guy who won't bring in his own undersized, often injured kid to play in front of an experienced QB.

Dude, give it up.