Senate Health Committee Clears Insurance Overhaul

FirefightnRick · July 16, 2009

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090715/ap_on_...h_care_overhaul

On Tuesday, House Democratic leaders pledged to meet the president's goal of health care legislation before their August break, offering a $1.5 trillion plan that for the first time would make health care a right and a responsibility for all Americans. Left to pick up most of the tab were medical providers, employers and the wealthy.

I think these people truly hate our country.

Rick

BeanCounterGrad'03 · July 16, 2009

Well...since we're throwing out hyperbolic accusations...

I think conservatives truly hate the poor.

Cody

KRAM1 · July 16, 2009

Well...since we're throwing out hyperbolic accusations...
I think conservatives truly hate the poor.
Cody

Proves you know absolutely nothing about conservatives (if in fact you actually believe that comment). <_<

BeanCounterGrad'03 · July 16, 2009

Proves you know absolutely nothing about conservatives (if in fact you actually believe that comment).

Proves you know absolutely nothing about sarcasm (if in fact you actually believe that I believe that comment). :rolleyes1:

KRAM1 · July 16, 2009

Just making sure. From you earlier posts, I was wondering if you had some sort of "change"...as my post indicated when I said "if you really believe what you said"...sarcasm, at times, does not come across well in in postings. Mine has also been missed many times. Thanks for clearing that up.

Edited July 16, 2009 by KRAM1

BeanCounterGrad'03 · July 16, 2009

No harm, no foul...

I hear ya on the communication problems on forums. I hate talking politics on forums (would rather discuss in person...but since I'm in CO...) which is why most of the time I post (lame) jokes and sarcastic comments. Lack of time and laziness usually prevents me from posting more than 60 words at a time.

EagleGreen · July 16, 2009

I think everyone needs the opportunity to have affordable health care. I hope as the plan becomes revised that the insurance companies will pick up some of the tab and lay down their plans to lower the cost of insurance (I doubt it will really happen). I also think before the deal is inked that the health care industry should ink that they will lower their prices as well (again, will probably not happen). Finally, I think this should be watched like a hawk if it really goes down so that in 5 years, if its not working, then adjustments can be made or the project scrapped.

In reality, I think the scumbag politicians will pork this thing to death and it will be a huge, debt-infested, turd.

Harry · July 16, 2009

Rick I think you've made it abundantly clear that you are against health care reform. My question to you is do you think healthcare needs to be fixed and if so what solutions would you support to fix it? We now know that 1 in 4 Texans do not have health insurance and health care costs nationally have more than doubled in just 10 years. Is your proposal to leave things as they are? Just interested in your thoughts on possible solutions.

keith · July 17, 2009

I am against it. This thing is a disaster. It is not about reducing the cost of health care. It is about expanding the size and scope of the Federal government. One step closer to a cradle to grave nanny state where people are more and more dependent on the Government. There will be no private health care options if this thing gets going.

Before the Federal Government does anything else with health care it should prove that it can remove the waste and fraud from Medicaid and Medicare that it admits is widespread. Unless it can do that, the Government has no right getting into anything else related to health care.

Keith

eulessismore · July 17, 2009

I am against it. This thing is a disaster. It is not about reducing the cost of health care. It is about expanding the size and scope of the Federal government. One step closer to a cradle to grave nanny state where people are more and more dependent on the Government. There will be no private health care options if this thing gets going.
Before the Federal Government does anything else with health care it should prove that it can remove the waste and fraud from Medicaid and Medicare that it admits is widespread. Unless it can do that, the Government has no right getting into anything else related to health care.
Keith

Perhaps before members of GoMeanGreen.com claim to have the solution to every public policy issue that exists anywhere in the World, we should figure out how to have a good football program.

UNTFan23 · July 17, 2009

I am against it. This thing is a disaster. It is not about reducing the cost of health care. It is about expanding the size and scope of the Federal government. One step closer to a cradle to grave nanny state where people are more and more dependent on the Government. There will be no private health care options if this thing gets going.
Before the Federal Government does anything else with health care it should prove that it can remove the waste and fraud from Medicaid and Medicare that it admits is widespread. Unless it can do that, the Government has no right getting into anything else related to health care.
Keith

While I hear the government is going to reduce the cost of health care, I haven't heard of the ways how it intends to do it. I'm all for lowering the cost while maintaining the current level and quality of care we have available today.

eulessismore · July 17, 2009

While I hear the government is going to reduce the cost of health care, I haven't heard of the ways how it intends to do it. I'm all for lowering the cost while maintaining the current level and quality of care we have available today.

I guess what I don't understand is why there's never been any kind of group rate available to those who don't have employer or government provided health insurance. It seems like that is something the insurance companies could actually come up with on their own, or with some government incentive, such as tax breaks, or as a requirement for those companies wishing to sell group plans to government entities. Or, am I wrong, and there is? I don't have all the answers, but I like Harry's idea of asking those expressing opposition to come up with suggestions, or at least to state openly, "hey, there is no problem". I honestly think that some here feel that there is no problem because they receive health insurance through their employer. If that's the basis of someone's belief, fine, but why not just come out and say so?

FirefightnRick · July 17, 2009

I think everyone needs the opportunity to have affordable health care.

Show me one person who doesn't have the "opportunity" to have affordable health care in this country?

Rick

Edited July 17, 2009 by FirefightnRick

Shuke-D · July 17, 2009

Show me one person who doesn't have the "opportunity" to have affordable health care in this country?
Rick

Well, if you don't feel like answering Harry's thoughtfully articulated question and instead want to put someone else's words in quotes, how about defining what you understand the word "affordable" to mean. Therein might lie the subjective crux of the dispute here.

FirefightnRick · July 17, 2009

Rick I think you've made it abundantly clear that you are against health care reform. My question to you is do you think healthcare needs to be fixed and if so what solutions would you support to fix it? We now know that 1 in 4 Texans do not have health insurance and health care costs nationally have more than doubled in just 10 years. Is your proposal to leave things as they are? Just interested in your thoughts on possible solutions.

No, why try and fix something that isn't broken and is the model health care system in the world? Does it not speak for anything when the wealthiest people on the planet come here for their surgeries and care? Sure prices have gone up, hasn't everything? Doesn't mean we should bankrupt our country over it. To lower prices I'd suggest cut the Corporate income tax, which is nothing but double taxation on shareholders and and consumers, and penalizes wealth and job creation. All industry would benefit, including the Health Care industry, open up more competition and reduce prices.

Can we afford to continue to spend at the rate we are spending in order to try and fix something that isn't broken? Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid is going bankrupt. These and other entitlements have built up more than $50 Trillion in IOU's due and payable by future generations. 1 in 4 people in Texas may not have health insurance, but not all of them are legal U.S. citizens and Texans. We know many of them choose not to buy health insurance simply because in their current state they don't feel there is a need, and many of them earn a very good living and simply choose not to buy in. I didn't give a rats about health insurance when I got out of college as did many others who were single and 23, 24 up through their middle 20's. I didn't have my own health insurance until I was 27 and many others I knew didn't either during that time of their life. Show me the bodies piling up in the streets(And I work there every third day and haven't seen it yet) from the supposed broken U.S. health care system and I'll start to listen to the options.

In the mean time check out what IBD found in Wednseday's bill.

Investors Business Daily shines light on a provision in the Democrat takeover bill that will effectively kill off the market for individual insurance and funnel consumers into the “public option

When we first saw the paragraph Tuesday, just after the 1,018-page document was released, we thought we surely must be misreading it. So we sought help from the House Ways and Means Committee.
It turns out we were right: The provision would indeed outlaw individual private coverage. Under the Orwellian header of “Protecting The Choice To Keep Current Coverage,” the “Limitation On New Enrollment” section of the bill clearly states:
“Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day” of the year the legislation becomes law.
So we can all keep our coverage, just as promised — with, of course, exceptions: Those who currently have private individual coverage won’t be able to change it. Nor will those who leave a company to work for themselves be free to buy individual plans from private carriers.

Rick

Edited July 17, 2009 by FirefightnRick

greenminer · July 17, 2009

Show me one person who doesn't have the "opportunity" to have affordable health care in this country?
Rick

Have you ever been independently/self-employed? The difference between what I get as a Met associate vs. what will be afforded me as a musician is ridiculous.

SilverEagle · July 17, 2009

Have you ever been independently/self-employed? The difference between what I get as a Met associate vs. what will be afforded me as a musician is ridiculous.

Does this mean you're going pro?

keith · July 17, 2009

Perhaps before members of GoMeanGreen.com claim to have the solution to every public policy issue that exists anywhere in the World, we should figure out how to have a good football program.

I don't believe I ever claimed that. This discussion has been going on here for several weeks now. You can go back and find my posts if you want to see my position. I've even provided a few possible solutions. In terms of a quick summary:

1) First of all, I do not believe health care is or should be a public policy issue.

2) I certaintly do not believe it is the crisis it is being made out to be.

3) I have seen no evidence that this plan will reduce the cost of health care.

4) One reason presented as the need for this plan is that Medicare and Medicaid full of waste and fraud. If that's so, isn't it the responsibility of the Federal government to fix the waste and fraud in its current programs - after all the government freely admits that it exists. If they allow it to continue, then it is criminal activity IMHO. Also, what is to prevent this same waste and fraud from creeping into the new program?

5) In a nutshell, I don't want the Federal government to have control over the health care industry (or any industry for that matter) - plain and simple.

Keith

GBarksdale · July 17, 2009

In a nutshell, I don't want the Federal government to have control over the health care industry (or any industry for that matter) - plain and simple.
Keith

And it won't. The Senate bill as it currently exists faces really long odds of passing. And the House bill, which is even worse, at this point doesn't even have enough Democrat votes to get out of committee.

keith · July 17, 2009

I guess what I don't understand is why there's never been any kind of group rate available to those who don't have employer or government provided health insurance. It seems like that is something the insurance companies could actually come up with on their own, or with some government incentive, such as tax breaks, or as a requirement for those companies wishing to sell group plans to government entities. Or, am I wrong, and there is? I don't have all the answers, but I like Harry's idea of asking those expressing opposition to come up with suggestions, or at least to state openly, "hey, there is no problem". I honestly think that some here feel that there is no problem because they receive health insurance through their employer. If that's the basis of someone's belief, fine, but why not just come out and say so?

See, it's not that hard to come up with reasonable adjustments to the existing environment. There is probably some law that prevents small businesses from banding together to negotiate better rates. Congress could simply change that law (probably in less than 1,100 pages too). Or how about allowing individuals to shop for better rates across state lines?

Keith

keith · July 17, 2009

And it won't. The Senate bill as it currently exists faces really long odds of passing. And the House bill, which is even worse, at this point doesn't even have enough Democrat votes to get out of committee.

Oh, didn't you see....we've been "put on notice" by our supreme leader. He wants this passed before the recess. You know before anyone has a chance to read and understand what it is.

Keith

KRAM1 · July 17, 2009

If I were a betting man, I don't bet, I just drink!!!!, I would give the chances of anything passing before the August recess a big fat ZERO! The opposition is building, even within the democrat base, and some folks (PHARMA for one) are feeling a bit duped into early support and are finding it a bit hard top continue to support this massive bill. Even the CBO Director has said that it will not lower costs, as promised by the Obama Administration, but instead will increase costs. We may choke down some sort of socialized plan for health care in the nation, but it is appearing more and more likely that it WILL NOT be the bill that is currently in the House for consideration. And, yes, you are right...the folks voting on this massive tax increase of a bill will not even have read the thing before they vote...if they vote.

One other thing that is beginning to happen is that the "folks back home" are beginning to fear the huge tax bills, spending bills and deficits being created by all the "change" taking place these days. They are beginning to let their reps know, Republican and democrat alike, that they have some serious concerns about all this "change" going on at once and are not sure that is what they voted for last November. Politician who want to be re-elected are beginning to listen to their home bases. This makes for some "interesting and challenging" times for this health care reform "thingy".

Interesting quote in today's Wall Street Journal from a LONG TIMR democrat. Under the title, "Obama Needs to 'Reset" His Presidency", Ted van Dyk (VP Hubert Humphrey's ass't in the White House and active in national democratic politics for over 40 years) is quoted as saying "The president we have is very different from the man who campaigned for the office in 2008". You can check the opinion piece out on page A15 of today's Journal. It is not an attack on Obama...it is a well thought out opinion piece from a BIG TIME democrat saying Obama may need to "back off" and slow down a bit for his and his administration's good. Check it out.

There is definitely some "change" beginning to occur and it might just not be the "change" Mr. Obama is looking for after promising everything to everybody (except of course to those who actually pay taxes, pay their mortgages, create jobs, etc., etc.).

EagleGreen · July 17, 2009

Show me one person who doesn't have the "opportunity" to have affordable health care in this country?
Rick

Surely you don't believe the statement that every American has the opportunity to have affordable health care. To believe that would be ridiculous. My Pop is a contractor for a telecom company. He doesn't make much and certainly can't afford to pay the high rates of insurance that he needs for him, my mom, and brother. Its widespread, all across the country. The rates are too high if you are not on a company or gov. plan. So the gov. is trying to come up with a plan. So far, the plan seems a little crappy and I bet it gets crappier as all the slimebag politicians get their hands on it.

What is the alternative you suggest? Have those that don't have a plan suck it up? Too bad? You should have gone to college or worked hard? It doesn't work like that. We need something, but that something needs to have checks and balances....probably won't happen.

meangreendork · July 17, 2009

Show me one person who doesn't have the "opportunity" to have affordable health care in this country?
Rick

Walk around campus sometime. Ask graduate and non-traditional students. Not everyone has mom and dad's credit card to depend on, or an easy field of study. You'll find students trading insurance money for a higher GPA or just a passing grade.

BeanCounterGrad'03 · July 17, 2009

Surely you don't believe the statement that every American has the opportunity to have affordable health care. To believe that would be ridiculous. My Pop is a contractor for a telecom company. He doesn't make much and certainly can't afford to pay the high rates of insurance that he needs for him, my mom, and brother. Its widespread, all across the country. The rates are too high if you are not on a company or gov. plan. So the gov. is trying to come up with a plan. So far, the plan seems a little crappy and I bet it gets crappier as all the slimebag politicians get their hands on it.
What is the alternative you suggest? Have those that don't have a plan suck it up? Too bad? You should have gone to college or worked hard? It doesn't work like that. We need something, but that something needs to have checks and balances....probably won't happen.

Sounds like your dad is a freeloading liberal hippie always looking for a handout from us honest, tax paying Americans. :angry: We don't take too kindly to those types on this board. To him I say, "pull yourself up by your own boot straps!"