Sbc Vs. Cusa

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

I compiled a list of games when the Sunbelt faced CUSA. I ranked each conference by # of conference wins then by overall wins. Keep in mind that this doesn't represent where they stood at the time of win or loss, just at the season end.

Also, the # and the expected/upset takes nothing into account except where they rank on the list in terms of wins/losses.

I was impressed at the Ull win over Houston and equally embarrassed at the Troy loss to UAB. Overall SBC = Bad.

Here are the facts, take from it what you will:

Sun Belt Conference:

Troy vs. (L UAB 21-3, W Rice 17-41)

MTSU vs (L Central MI (MAC) 31 -14) *CMU was ranked #1 in the MAC

AkSt vs (L SMU 55-9, W Memphis 23-26)

FAtl (no cusa game)

Ull vs (W Houston 28-31, = Most impressive win in SBC)

Ulm (no cusa game)

NT vs (W SMU 6-24, L Tulsa 28-3)

FIU 0 wins

CUSA:

Houston

SMiss

Rice

Tulsa

EstCrlina

SMU

Marshall

UTEP

UCF

Tulne

UAB

Memphis

SBC Wins Against:

Rice (SBC #1 vs. CUSA #3) - expected

Memphis (SBC #3 vs. CUSA #12) - expected

Houston (SBC #5 vs. CUSA #1) - upset

SMU (SBC #7 vs. CUSA #6) - upset

CUSA Wins Against:

Troy (SBC #1 vs. CUSA #11) - upset

Tulsa (SBC #5 vs. CUSA #4) - expected

MAC Wins Against:

MTSU (SBC #2 vs. MAC #1) - expected

Edited May 1, 2007 by Daddy Dumpsalot

[MeanGreen61]

I compiled a list of games when the Sunbelt faced CUSA. I ranked each conference by # of conference wins then by overall wins. Keep in mind that this doesn't represent where they stood at the time of win or loss, just at the season end.

Also, the # and the expected/upset takes nothing into account except where they rank on the list in terms of wins/losses.

I was impressed at the Ull win over Houston and equally embarrassed at the Troy loss to UAB.

Here are the facts, take from it what you will:

Sun Belt Conference:

Troy vs. (L UAB 21-3, W Rice 17-41)

MTSU vs (L Central MI (MAC) 31 -14) *CMU was ranked #1 in the MAC

AkSt vs (L SMU 55-9, W Memphis 23-26)

FAtl (no cusa game)

Ull vs (W Houston 28-31, = Most impressive win in SBC)

Ulm (no cusa game)

NT vs (W SMU 6-24)

FIU 0 wins

CUSA:

Houston

SMiss

Rice

Tulsa

EstCrlina

SMU

Marshall

UTEP

UCF

Tulne

UAB

Memphis

SBC Wins Against:

Rice (SBC #1 vs. CUSA #3) - expected

Memphis (SBC #3 vs. CUSA #12) - expected

Houston (SBC #5 vs. CUSA #1) - upset

SMU (SBC #7 vs. CUSA #6) - upset

CUSA Wins Against:

Troy (SBC #1 vs. CUSA #11) - upset

MAC Wins Against:

MTSU (SBC #2 vs. MAC #1) - expected

UNT 1-1 (W SMU, L Tulsa)

[FirefightnRick]

I compiled a list of games when the Sunbelt faced CUSA. I ranked each conference by # of conference wins then by overall wins. Keep in mind that this doesn't represent where they stood at the time of win or loss, just at the season end.

Also, the # and the expected/upset takes nothing into account except where they rank on the list in terms of wins/losses.

I was impressed at the Ull win over Houston and equally embarrassed at the Troy loss to UAB. Overall SBC = Bad.

Here are the facts, take from it what you will:

SBC Wins Against:

Rice (SBC #1 vs. CUSA #3) - expected

I'm not seeing how your getting that the SBC is bad in comparing it to C-USA this past year? The Belt went 4-3 against C-USA. A winning record is still good(compared to bad) in today's standards isn't it? By the way, you left off the NT loss to Tulsa.

Also, you do realize that Rice lost the C-USA championship with a 1 point loss to Houston, right? Then Rice beat the other two C-USA bowl teams in East Carolina and Tulsa during conference play. Rice finished the overall season 7-6 but three of their 4 non-conference loses were to Texas, Florida State and a 10 point loss at UCLA. Given all of that I see that you still expected Troy(from a bad Sunbelt Conference) to destroy Rice 41-17 in the bowl game.?

Rick

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

By the way, you left off the NT loss to Tulsa.

Look closer, its there. Originally it wasn't but by the time you posted I edited it in.

Also, you do realize that Rice lost the C-USA championship with a 1 point loss to Houston, right?

Not true. Houston played Rice first game of the season 9/2 with a 31/30 win. Houston played Smiss and won 34-20 for the conference championship.

Then Rice beat the other two C-USA bowl teams in East Carolina and Tulsa during conference play.

Yes, ECarolina by 1pt and Tulsa by a field goal, yes still wins though. In which both of these bowl teams went on to lose their bowl games, but thats beside the point.

Rice finished the overall season 7-6 but three of their 4 non-conference loses were to Texas, Florida State and a 10 point loss at UCLA.

Texas loss 52-7. Florida st. loss 55-7. But yes they scored.

Given all of that I see that you still expected Troy(from a bad Sunbelt Conference) to destroy Rice 41-17 in the bowl game.?

So yes given all of that I would have expected our top ranked team to able to handle their #3 Rice, however, I would not have thought by that large of a margin. And I would still say that NT could take Rice at home any day.

Lets not forget that our top ranked team Troy was held to a field goal by their next to last ranked UAB. Lets also not forget that another one of the wins was against their lowest ranked team. And their SMU handled our #3 AKST 55-9. NT did handle SMU pretty good. But the big SBC/CUSA upset was by a field goal.

[UNTLifer]

Yes, and the SBC still held a 4-3 advantage over CUSA.

[greenminer]

I don't know if Rice is the best team to hinge an argument on. They were Jeckle and Hyde last year. I think Troy's thumping of them and ULL's triumph over UH were the biggest positives for the SBC. I don't know how Troy lost to UAB....sad.

It seems you're being too nit-picky about scores? We were 4-3 against them, correct? To take that a step further, the idea that we were even expected to win against them in any games is a far cry from where the SBC started in '01.

If you think the SBC is bad now, I'd like to know where you would have stood in the conferences first few years.

I remember that with the exception of the Baylor, we were horrid against OOC during the four championship years. In '02 we came close against Arizona and TCU, but close isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about wins.

[eppy4life]

I don't know that their is any question which is the better conference. Lets be realistic: FIU, FAU, and Western Kentucky just bring us down.

[emmitt01]

I don't know that their is any question which is the better conference. Lets be realistic: FIU, FAU, and Western Kentucky just bring us down.

The same FAU that owned us under Dickey even when we were winning in conference?

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

The same FAU that owned us under Dickey even when we were winning in conference?

Yes, even though they can beat us doesn't say anything for them but everything against us.

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

Yes, and the SBC still held a 4-3 advantage over CUSA.

Well if this is the case why dont we schedule our top ranked teams against the lowest ranked teams of every other conference and then the Sunbelt will really look good (Except for UAB). We could put our best Troy, Akst, Florida whateveritscalled, against UtSt., Duke, Iowa St, Syracuse, Illinois, Memphis, Temple, UNLV, MissSt. Im sure we would win at least one of those games then we could have bragging rights that we beat an SEC, ACC, Big Ten...etc. school.

As I said I was impressed with the ULL victory over Houston...you see, miracles still do happen.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Records 2001-2006 of Texas I-A's

UT 66 - 11

TCU 55 - 19

TTU 49 - 25

A-M 39 - 33

NT 34 - 39 ----- SUN-BELT

UH 31 - 42 ----- CUSA

Rice 28 - 42 ---- CUSA

UTEP 27 - 48 ---- CUSA

BU 21 - 48

smu 21 - 48 ---- CUSA

CUSA doesn't have a lot to brag about, at least not the Texas group.

[CMJ]

Well if this is the case why dont we schedule our top ranked teams against the lowest ranked teams of every other conference and then the Sunbelt will really look good (Except for UAB). We could put our best Troy, Akst, Florida whateveritscalled, against UtSt., Duke, Iowa St, Syracuse, Illinois, Memphis, Temple, UNLV, MissSt. Im sure we would win at least one of those games then we could have bragging rights that we beat an SEC, ACC, Big Ten...etc. school.

As I said I was impressed with the ULL victory over Houston...you see, miracles still do happen.

Isn't that what we did when we played Baylor a few years ago?

[greenminer]

Why are we even debating this? What purpose does it serve to make an argument against the Belt's credentials?

[UNTLifer]

Why are we even debating this? What purpose does it serve to make an argument against the Belt's credentials?

Well, Daddydumpsalot mentioned in another thread that the SBC was the worst conference by far. I replied that he should look at the head to head record from last year between the SBC and CUSA, since the SBC had a winning record against them. Obviously that doesn't matter to him, as he just wants to dump on our conference home and not realize how far this conference has come in the last six years.

[UNTLifer]

delete--double post

Edited May 2, 2007 by UNTLifer

[FirefightnRick]

Look closer, its there. Originally it wasn't but by the time you posted I edited it in.

Not true. Houston played Rice first game of the season 9/2 with a 31/30 win. Houston played Smiss and won 34-20 for the conference championship.

Yes, ECarolina by 1pt and Tulsa by a field goal, yes still wins though. In which both of these bowl teams went on to lose their bowl games, but thats beside the point.

Texas loss 52-7. Florida st. loss 55-7. But yes they scored.

So yes given all of that I would have expected our top ranked team to able to handle their #3 Rice, however, I would not have thought by that large of a margin. And I would still say that NT could take Rice at home any day.

Lets not forget that our top ranked team Troy was held to a field goal by their next to last ranked UAB. Lets also not forget that another one of the wins was against their lowest ranked team. And their SMU handled our #3 AKST 55-9. NT did handle SMU pretty good. But the big SBC/CUSA upset was by a field goal.

You still have a win for C-USA against Tulsa, but I understand what your saying.

CUSA Wins Against:

Troy (SBC #1 vs. CUSA #11) - upset

Tulsa (SBC #5 vs. CUSA #4) - expected

About Rice, I suppose what I originally meant to point out is that Rice lost the chance to play for the C-USA Championship by 1 point in that first game against Houston. And they didn't get the chance to play Southern Miss. It could be argued easily that Rice was the second best team in that conference, and Troy destroyed them.

Rice beating the two other bowl teams, who happened to lose their bowl games is not beside the point. It's exactly the point. C-USA is being considered by you, as a good conference compared to the Sunbelt(a bad conference). Yet it seems to me it had exactly what most conference strive for, equal teams that compete well against each other. The very fact the Belt finished 4-3 against C-USA is anything but making it a bad conference.

I'm not sure how long you have followed Belt football but if you can't see the strides it's made these past 6 seasons during it's infancy then I'm afraid you are in for a lot of dissapointment. The WAC, MAC and C-USA were not born overnight. The MAC is in it's 45th season. It took it 16 years before it had two teams qualify for bowl games. The Belt did it in three. Baby steps, baby steps, baby steps.

eppy4life mentioned WKU, FAU and FIU brings us down. That's the same thing most of us here with the exception of Stebo said about Troy six years ago. Three years later they were competing for conference and beating the likes of Missouri, Marshall and scaring the hell out of LSU. FAU turned some major heads during their first 1-A season, spent mostly on the road and as has been said already, has yet to lose to us. WKU has a 1-AA national title under their belt. Bringing them in may just be the best addition yet, like Marshall was to the MAC and Troy was to the Belt.

If it's the Big 12/ex SWC member alumni and their bootlicker following who have you down at the watercooler you got to get over it. Try and remember that NT has held it's own against many of them over the years and done so with much less money spent doing it and has run a much cleaner program than some of them as well. The Sunbelt is our conference and NT will be a major factor in building it to where we want it to be for the future.

Rick

Edited May 3, 2007 by FirefightnRick

[eppy4life]

Is the Sun Belt the IA limbo conference? Meaning, the border line IA teams come and go from here. If so, I don't think it will rise above other conferences when the idea for teams in the conference continues to be "get in and get out."

[tsufan]

I don't know if Rice is the best team to hinge an argument on. They were Jeckle and Hyde last year. I think Troy's thumping of them and ULL's triumph over UH were the biggest positives for the SBC. I don't know how Troy lost to UAB....sad.

It seems you're being too nit-picky about scores? We were 4-3 against them, correct? To take that a step further, the idea that we were even expected to win against them in any games is a far cry from where the SBC started in '01.

If you think the SBC is bad now, I'd like to know where you would have stood in the conferences first few years.

I remember that with the exception of the Baylor, we were horrid against OOC during the four championship years. In '02 we came close against Arizona and TCU, but close isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about wins.

I'm not sure how we lost to UAB either....maybe due to us breaking in a new offensive scheme and our killer schedule?

Our schedule in 2006....

@ FSU

@ GT

@ Nebraska

@ UAB

I think the boys were wore out. Still no reason to lose to UAB! Sorry guys.

[UNTLifer]

Is the Sun Belt the IA limbo conference? Meaning, the border line IA teams come and go from here. If so, I don't think it will rise above other conferences when the idea for teams in the conference continues to be "get in and get out."

I think to be a "limbo conference," the SBC would have to have teams dropping back down to 1AA, which hasn't occurred. The SBC has been the "entry to 1A football conference" for a few schools, FAU, Troy, WKU, but that is due to infancy of the conference. The MAC and WAC won't add teams unless a larger conference comes along and steals a few current members, and the SBC is in the same boat now.

As FFR stated, "The MAC is in it's 45th season. It took it 16 years before it had two teams qualify for bowl games." The SBC did this in 3 years, which is pretty impressive in my book. The quality of play is much improved over the 2001 season, as is attendance across the conference. The SBC would have been manhandled by CUSA back then, so winning 4 of 7 in our sixth year as a conference is impressive.

My point is that we should support the conference we are affiliated with and help build its national reputation. We should also position ourselves to be ready should a bigger, more established conference come calling in the future, and part of this positioning is building the reputation of the SBC.

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

Rice beating the two other bowl teams, who happened to lose their bowl games is not beside the point. It's exactly the point. C-USA is being considered by you, as a good conference compared to the Sunbelt(a bad conference).

Lets look at who they were playing. Ecar vs. South FL and Tulsa vs. Utah. They were in 5 bowl games vs. our 2. Yes they were 1-4 in them but they played 'up' each game and had one loss against our #1 Troy. They played the likes of the Big East, SEC, MWC and held their own and won the MAC game.

eppy4life mentioned WKU, FAU and FIU brings us down. That's the same thing most of us here with the exception of Stebo said about Troy six years ago. Three years later they were competing for conference and beating the likes of Missouri, Marshall and scaring the hell out of LSU. FAU turned some major heads during their first 1-A season, spent mostly on the road and as has been said already, has yet to lose to us.

And with all this they still dont get fans at the games or national attention or more tv deals or more publicity.

I just dont see this conference becoming anything worth while. Look at the teams that the Sunbelt is pulling in. They are teams that are just becoming IA. Then when a team starts doing well they move up to another conference, a better one. Or when another conference just plain needs more teams they jump at the chance to leave the belt.

You wont find ANY schools in the CUSA, WAC, MWC, or even prob. the MAC that would leave where they are to come play in the Sunbelt. The Sunbelt conference does not pull in teams from these other conferences, therefore, how can we expect our conference to get any better? So people may say the Sunbelt teams need to start winning their out of conference games as well as their conference games...ok, then when they do that they take the first bus out of the Sunbelt conference, and here we are stuck in the same place.

NOW, I agree that this is where we are and I will continue to go to the games and support my school. I agree the Sunbelt is far better from where it was...I mean afterall the Sunbelt didn't even have football as part of the conference until 2001.

[UNTLifer]

Lets look at who they were playing. Ecar vs. South FL and Tulsa vs. Utah. They were in 5 bowl games vs. our 2. Yes they were 1-4 in them but they played 'up' each game and had one loss against our #1 Troy. They played the likes of the Big East, SEC, MWC and held their own and won the MAC game.

And with all this they still dont get fans at the games or national attention or more tv deals or more publicity.

I just dont see this conference becoming anything worth while. Look at the teams that the Sunbelt is pulling in. They are teams that are just becoming IA. Then when a team starts doing well they move up to another conference, a better one. Or when another conference just plain needs more teams they jump at the chance to leave the belt.

You wont find ANY schools in the CUSA, WAC, MWC, or even prob. the MAC that would leave where they are to come play in the Sunbelt. The Sunbelt conference does not pull in teams from these other conferences, therefore, how can we expect our conference to get any better? So people may say the Sunbelt teams need to start winning their out of conference games as well as their conference games...ok, then when they do that they take the first bus out of the Sunbelt conference, and here we are stuck in the same place.

NOW, I agree that this is where we are and I will continue to go to the games and support my school. I agree the Sunbelt is far better from where it was...I mean afterall the Sunbelt didn't even have football as part of the conference until 2001.

Good Lord. Where do you think these teams are going to move to? By the time conferences realign, if this even happens, the SBC may have bypassed a few of these conferences. Besides, the conferences that are expanding look far beyond conference affiliation when selecting schools. Things like facilities, media market and program support play a much larger role than conference affiliation.

[eppy4life]

Things like facilities, media market and program support play a much larger role than conference affiliation.

I would agree with this except how is Baylor in a better media market than North Texas?

[Mean Green 93-98]

I would agree with this except how is Baylor in a better media market than North Texas?

That was only one of three criteria mentioned. Notice the third, which we have severely lacked. Hopefully, that will improve significantly under the new regime.

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

By the time conferences realign, if this even happens, the SBC may have bypassed a few of these conferences.

I was wondering if you had any examples of crappier conferences passing better conferences? This might make me feel a little better.

[island eagle]

I was wondering if you had any examples of crappier conferences passing better conferences? This might make me feel a little better.

The best example would be the old Southwest Conference which went from total obscurity to the national arena, starting in the late 30's and periodically after that.

Another, actually would have been the old Big 8, which was a do-nothing conference until the 1950's under OU and even then it was called "OU and the Seven Dwarfs" until Nebraska, Colorado and a few others stepped up to the plate.