The Drive: Texas State's Campaign To 1-a

Cerebus · May 30, 2008

On that note, how would they have students attend public schools? Other than not being accepted by UT and A&M I am not seeing how the THECB would do that?

1) Cap enrollment, possibly even lower it where you don't want people to go.

2) Channel more funds to the schools you want people to go to, for infrastructure.

3) Better inform the public (and guidance councilors) about the other opportunities for public education in Texas

The only other alternatives for students at that point is to either spend more money by going out of state or private schools.

For the vast majority of Texas who will be entering college age in the next decade or two, that won't be an economic option.

Cerebus · May 30, 2008

Let's see, new dorms, new Rec Center, new Environmental Sciences Bldg, new Chemistry Bldg, new COBA Bldg, new dorms, etc... Yep, I would say the needs are being ignored in Denton.

Further proof of neglect, this building has fallen down!

http://lscam.cascss.unt.edu/view/index.shtml

Stan R · May 30, 2008

Further proof of neglect, this building has fallen down!
http://lscam.cascss.unt.edu/view/index.shtml

:lol: That was where I met my future wife. What does that say about our future?

Green Mean · May 30, 2008

I have to admit I enjoy Check Facts' addition to the board. Face it, the entertainment value on here has taken a nose dive akin to the housing markets since the lack of hurricane predictions, the absence of Green Grenade, and PMG rants seem to be fewer and further between lately.
Personally I'm glad to see the 'wack job' vaccum being filled by Check Facts

I totally agree. Checkfacts is a great addition to this board and though many dont see eye with him, he offers a different perspective on things. He has made a lot of good and valid points whether we want to hear them or not.

MeanMag · May 30, 2008

I totally agree. Checkfacts is a great addition to this board and though many dont see eye with him, he offers a different perspective on things. He has made a lot of good and valid points whether we want to hear them or not.

Agreed, and it looks like he cares more than to let a few people brow beating him into gomeangreen groupthink. Things might not be quite as bad as he's making them out to be around UNT, but some of the things he's talking about do make you wonder, and certainly aren't 100% wrong.

Quoner · May 30, 2008

Agreed, and it looks like he cares more than to let a few people brow beating him into gomeangreen groupthink. Things might not be quite as bad as he's making them out to be around UNT, but some of the things he's talking about do make you wonder, and certainly aren't 100% wrong.

UNTLifer · May 30, 2008

Agreed, and it looks like he cares more than to let a few people brow beating him into gomeangreen groupthink. Things might not be quite as bad as he's making them out to be around UNT, but some of the things he's talking about do make you wonder, and certainly aren't 100% wrong.

I don't disagree with everything he posts, it is just his attitude that wears on me. He's right and everyone else, professors, other posters, politicians, policemen, etc..., are wrong. He feels he is 100% right on everything, and I have yet to meet someone who was except my wife.

Baby Arm! · May 30, 2008

He feels he is 100% right on everything, and I have yet to meet someone who was except my wife.

:lol: Late entry for best line of the week :lol:

The Fake Lonnie Finch · May 30, 2008

I don't disagree with everything he posts, it is just his attitude that wears on me. He's right and everyone else, professors, other posters, politicians, policemen, etc..., are wrong. He feels he is 100% right on everything, and I have yet to meet someone who was except my wife.

Line of the week? Try best line of all-time!

CheckFacts · May 30, 2008

As Cerebus stated above, The THECB has informed UNT admin that overcrowding issues at UT and A&M will be relieved at UNT. Eagle Point has allowed the construction of an additional dorm with another in the master plan. Again, there are no academic programs on the Eagle Point campus.
The Hotel Restaurant program should be placed in the hotel on Eagle Point to provide the students with valuable experience. U of Houston has a Hilton on its campus and is recognized as one of the best programs in the nation. As Cerebus pointed out, where would you put a hotel one the main campus side of I35.
Let's see, new dorms, new Rec Center, new Environmental Sciences Bldg, new Chemistry Bldg, new COBA Bldg, new dorms, etc... Yep, I would say the needs are being ignored in Denton.

first the Hilton program at UH is great because of the funding from the Hilton foundation.....not only because they have a hotel to operate

second UNT is talking about tearing down the Raddison (actually they have no idea what they will do with it yet)

third in 2004-2005 UNT projected it would cost 7 million to buy out the raddison.....now they are talking about tearing it down....yet you claim it would bankrupt UNT to tear down some of that crap in cement city.......your argument fails

fourth the THECB has PROJECTIONS for UNT to be at 41,000 students in 2020 not a mandate of 45,000 students

fifth there is talk of moving the hotel program to eagle point and now the COBA as well (look for the raddison to be the new COBA building)......the TI campus already has students.....more students should go there.......if students are unhappy about a bus to TI why would they be any less unhappy about being bussed to Eagle Point......it is not like it is actually close to campus and once I-35 construction starts it will be worse......and the fact that students don't like going to TI shows the poor planning of UNT.....they really don't need that property either....especially for undergrad classes.....and they do not have the research and graduate students to support a "research campus"....but the mistake has already been made.....might as well go with it instead of yet another mistake of putting academics at Eagle Point as well

Environmental Sciences was built a long time ago at this point and the COBA has yet to be funded or built and may soon turn out to be the Raddison

all of those buildings are nice, but with the exception of the Rec Center all those buildings are state funded under formula funding....while there is nothing wrong with building under formula funding.....there are a number of things happening OFF CAMPUS and IN DALLAS that should be located IN DENTON or associated with the Denton campus.....as of now the Law School (God Forbid UNT is allowed to start one) will be attached to the south dallas campus as will a pharmacy program (God Forbid UNT gets one of those and it will be a long ways away if ever)

the fashion collection built by the faculty in Denton with no permanent place to show it in Denton is now the center piece of a 14 million dollar campaign to build out a facility to house it in downtown dallas as an economic development tool........that 14 million should be spent in Denton where the collection was assembled

in 2004 UNT planned for 3 million in Art Building renovations to start in 2007-2009....I have seen no progress on this

UNT has also talked about an Art Annex and larger area for working on projects....I have seen no progress on this

again if you are OK with professional programs being attached to the south dallas campus that is your opinion.....if you are OK with 14 million being raised to finish out a museum in downtown dallas to house a collection build by faculty in DENTON that is your opinion

I feel a "flagship campus" should be the one with professional programs attached to it and I feel a campus that has a large college of art yet has ZERO museums on campus should be the one that has 14 million spent to house a fashion collection that was BUILT IN DENTON.....instead of seeing it and the fashion program eventually moved to downtown dallas to aid their economic recovery efforts

all of those buildings that are built or planned are nice, but to be a top university you need to do more than sit around and wait for state appropriations and formula funding to build everything for you.....otherwise you will see yourself being left behind by others....especially when the administration is busy building up other campuses in Dallas

as for being "right" about things

when you are at a university and in a program that is at risk of losing its accreditation (and the administrations answer is to ask for a longer probation) and then they start to build an unneeded campus to aid in the economic development of south dallas you get pissed off

when you contact people to discuss that and are met with juvenile arguments and race baiting you get pissed off

when you see that same university start down the same path in downtown dallas you just roll your eyes

when it takes a seven line EMAIL to have your grade significantly changed......you question the quality of the faculty.....especially when her class was a repeat of the previous two classes and was an unorganized disaster

why would I not think I am 100% correct in my comments on UNT.....none of you have shown anything to prove me wrong and you have often answered with things that confirm I am correct......like troll calling and other things designed to call me into question VS pointing out something to prove I am incorrect

fact professional programs are going AWAY from Denton....it is right there in writing for all to see plain as day

fact UNT has failed to meet projections and reduced projections in south dallas and is now having to borrow money and bond things out to keep it going.....this has an effect on Denton because a SYSTEM can only bound out so much before a ratings drop

fact UNT is going down the same path in downtown dallas now...and moving programs and collections out of Denton

and it will continue

Edited May 30, 2008 by CheckFacts

Cerebus · May 30, 2008

third in 2004-2005 UNT projected it would cost 7 million to buy out the raddison.....now they are talking about tearing it down....yet you claim it would bankrupt UNT to tearw down some of that crap in cement city.......your argument fails

The last I was told, the hotel was considered a "fixture" on the property and reverted to the university when the lease was terminated.

Also, it would cost much more than 7 million dollars to buy the cement city land from the curent owners, much less to tear it down and build new buildings.

fourth the THECB has PROJECTIONS for UNT to be at 41,000 students in 2020 not a mandate of 45,000 students

The ones shown to me stated 45k. Also, who said anything about a mandate?

fifth there is talk of moving the hotel program to eagle point and now the COBA as well (look for the raddison to be the new COBA building)......

Where did you hear this? I just spoke with people who are very high in COBA planning and they deny this.

the TI campus already has students.....more students should go there.......if students are unhappy about a bus to TI why would they be any less unhappy about being bussed to Eagle Point......

Have you ever taken the TI bus? I have. It's a much longer trip than over to EP.

Also, the University is interested in moving more staff out to TI, not more academic programs.

and the fact that students don't like going to TI shows the poor planning of UNT.....they really don't need that property either....

It is apparent that you have no sense of the severe classroom shortage that is happening on the main campus right now.

all of those buildings are nice, but with the exception of the Rec Center all those buildings are state funded under formula funding....while there is nothing wrong with building under formula funding.....there are a number of things happening OFF CAMPUS and IN DALLAS that should be located IN DENTON or associated with the Denton campus.....as of now the Law School (God Forbid UNT is allowed to start one) will be attached to the south dallas campus as will a pharmacy program (God Forbid UNT gets one fo those)

What is wrong with UNT having a law school or pharmacy school? The Texas Department of State Health Services has stated there is a shortage of pharmacists in the state which will turn into a severe shortage as the population ages. Even though Gov. GoodHair is against it, there have been more than one state agency that has claimed Texas has a lawyer shortage. And many Texas kids have to leave the state to go to Law School, why not keep the tuition in state?

in 2004 UNT planned for 3 million in Art Building renovations to start in 2007-2009....I have seen no progress on this
UNT has also talked about an Art Annex and larger area for working on projects....I have seen no progress on this

There is a long wait for building renovations and new building on campus. Art is in line but will have to wait.

again if you are OK with professional programs being attached to the south dallas campus that is your opinion.....if you are OK with 14 million being raised to finish out a museum in downtown dallas to house a collection build by faculty in DENTON that is your opinion

all of those buildings that are built or planned are nice, but to be a top university you need to do more than sit around and wait for state appropriations and formula funding to build everything for you.....otherwise you will see yourself being left behind by others....especially when the administration is busy building up other campuses in Dallas

They are using that state money, earmarked for those campuses, to build those. It's not like UNT would have that money to spend on campus if they didn't spend it on the other campuses.

Green Mean · May 30, 2008

I agree with checkfacts that its completely rediculous to take away professional programs and major away from Denton and put them in the Dallas campus. To me its a lot of prestige with a main campus having things like a pharmacy school and law school. I think the Dallas Campus really needs to just have the basic degrees as of now including business and etc. Other than that, putting a lot of professional pharmacies there is not fair to the Denton campus because I think it needs to be in Denton!

Cerebus · May 30, 2008

I agree with checkfacts that its completely to take away professional programs and major away from Denton and put them in the Dallas campus. To me its a lot of prestige with a main campus having things like a pharmacy school and law school. I think the Dallas Campus really needs to just have the basic degrees as of now including business and etc. Other than that, putting a lot of professional pharmacies there is not fair to the Denton campus because I think it needs to be in Denton!

Why is it ridiculous?

Where on campus are they supposed to go?

UNT has show it is going to a multicampus there medical school is not on the main campus, the engineering school is not on the main campus, the law school will not be on the main campus.

UNT is trying to become a system, a system has more than one campus.

UNTLifer · May 30, 2008

first the Hilton program at UH is great because of the funding from the Hilton foundation.....not only because they have a hotel to operate

I'm sure the future hotel built on Eagle Point will be tied to a large operator that would benefit from being connected to the program at NT and will have a hand in funding.

second UNT is talking about tearing down the Raddison (actually they have no idea what they will do with it yet)

Sounds like it needs to be torn down and rebuilt anyway.

third in 2004-2005 UNT projected it would cost 7 million to buy out the raddison.....now they are talking about tearing it down....yet you claim it would bankrupt UNT to tearw down some of that crap in cement city.......your argument fails

I never claimed it would bankrupt NT to tear down cement city, but why add more land to the campus when NT already owns, and has owned for years, the land at Eagle Point?

fourth the THECB has PROJECTIONS for UNT to be at 41,000 students in 2020 not a mandate of 45,000 students

41,000....45,000, is 4,000 really worth the arguement? Either way, there is a need for further student housing, etc...

fifth there is talk of moving the hotel program to eagle point and now the COBA as well (look for the raddison to be the new COBA building)......the TI campus already has students.....more students should go there.......if students are unhappy about a bus to TI why would they be any less unhappy about being bussed to Eagle Point......it is not like it is actually close to campus and once I-35 construction starts it will be worse......and the fact that students don't like going to TI shows the poor planning of UNT.....they really don't need that property either....especially for undergrad classes.....and they do not have the research and graduate students to support a "research campus"....but the mistake has already been made.....might as well go with it instead of yet another mistake of putting academics at Eagle Point as well

Bussed to Eagle Point? It's so close I always considered that part of the campus. Give the "Research Park" time. They just made, what I would consider, an excellent hire to run the engineering program. You act like they should open the doors and fill the place up immediately. They have room to grow that is bought and paid for now.

Environmental Sciences was built a long time ago at this point and the COBA has yet to be funded or built and may soon turn out to be the Raddison
all of those buildings are nice, but with the exception of the Rec Center all those buildings are state funded under formula funding....while there is nothing wrong with building under formula funding.....there are a number of things happening OFF CAMPUS and IN DALLAS that should be located IN DENTON or associated with the Denton campus.....as of now the Law School (God Forbid UNT is allowed to start one) will be attached to the south dallas campus as will a pharmacy program (God Forbid UNT gets one fo those)

Make up your mind. I was responding to your post stating that things were basically being ignored on the main campus while everything was being done for the Dallas campus. Why shouldn't UNT have a Law School or a pharmacy program for that matter? This area doesn't offer this programs through a public university.

all of those buildings that are built or planned are nice, but to be a top university you need to do more than sit around and wait for state appropriations and formula funding to build everything for you.....otherwise you will see yourself being left behind by others....especially when the administration is busy building up other campuses in Dallas

If that is what you need to do to build the new facilities, then that is what you do. I would agree that NT has historically done a horrible job of cultivating giving alumni, but I see this changing in the future. I wouldn't consider NT being left behind considering NT is the third/fourth largest university in the state and building the facilities to handle its growth.

I would question that if you are that unhappy at UNT, then why are you here? You have one professor that you don't agree with and claim the entire faculty is bad, you read about a NT police officer being arrested for a domestic issue when he his off duty and call for the end of the entire police force, you call a politician to complain about his pet project and are surprised when he doesn't agree with you. Why not call NT's administration in regards to the Dallas campus that you hate so much instead of the politician that serves that area? You haven't done anything to disprove my points either other than repeat your points/opinions over and over.

I'm starting to understand why you have had experiences at multiple schools. You're looking for a utopia that doesn't exist. Everything, everything has problems in this world. North Texas has produced many alumni that have succeeded in their professional field because of the education they received, many professors have been recognized for their work in their chosen field and will continue to do so.

Again, if UNT is so bad, then why do you continue to go here?

UNTflyer · May 30, 2008

fifth there is talk of moving the hotel program to eagle point and now the COBA as well (look for the raddison to be the new COBA building)

That is not happening. You are completely wrong here, the COBA building will be built where Kendall Hall is currently.

Cowtown · May 30, 2008

Well I for one thought that TSSM intro was extra sexy.

But why are they flashing the Lumberjack sign???

CheckFacts · May 30, 2008

http://www.thecb.state.tx.us/ClosingtheGap..._pdf.cfm?Goal=1

THECB projections for enrollment.....UNT is at 41,000 in 2020......it was mentioned previously that UNT had a "mandate" for 45,000 by another forum member

UNT is certainly not using state funds to do things in south dallas and downtown dallas.....they are using a great deal of borrowing against the wishes of the THECB.....read the article below

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...T.3bd13c04.html

"""""Staff members at the Coordinating Board recommend rejecting UNT's request to buy the loft building, which has 129 units and is nearly full. Enrollment is down at the Universities Center, and most students are part-timers, so housing isn't really needed, according to a staff report. Also, UNT would rent to nonstudents, and that “does not fit within the educational mission” of UNT, the report said.

If the board denies the lofts purchase, UNT officials said, they would still try to expand downtown offerings but would have to look for other ways to finance them. This could include passing more costs on to students or taxpayers. """"""

now read the presentation by the idiot jackson to the THECB

http://untsystem.unt.edu/pdfs/chancellor-p...CB_09-20-07.pdf

""""Progress slow in turning 1900 Elm Street into a student residence""""

also look at where the fashion collection is going.....the center of a 14 million dollar campaign to move something OUT OF DENTON

now read the old articles on this forum

http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/showthread.php?t=334

"""""Since 1999, the state has given UNT $16.69 million for the center's programs and allowed it to borrow $25 million for construction.""""""

while I agree the 16 million might not have ever made it to Denton..........the 25 million that was BORROWED is certainly not being paid off by the 800 students in south dallas

read the article....UNT is making NO FRIENDS at THECB right now and in a time when higher education dollars are hard to come by the fact UNT was able to fleece the tax payers fo Texas for 16.9 million is nothing to brag about......it is selfish and stinks of pigs feeding at the public trough......look at the degrees offered in south dallas........they better fit at a community college

with a SEVERE shortage of classroom space......one would think efforts would go into EXISTING universities......not building new failed campuses

I am not in favor of UNT starting any professional schools until they prove they can clean up their mess in south dallas and downtown dallas....and there is no shortage of lawyers....and if those programs are attached to south dallas I am not in favor of them at all

if there is a long line to renovate buildings on campus....why is UNT buying more buildings and properties they have no idea what they will do with yet.....and why are they trying to start two other residential campuses.....when neither have met projections and one serves as a "ms manners" school for DISD kids

I had a number of other poor experiences with faculty at UNT...but those are personal stories that would be hard to verify.....but anyone can go to Dr. Jacobs office at any time and ask him when he was the acting chair of CS and the CS program was placed on ABET probation for lack of faculty was UNTs response to ask for a 5 year probation instead of a 3 year probation so they could wait 4 years to hire more faculty

anyone can also go into AB Grubbs office and ask him why the civil engineering technology program folded at UNT (faculty leaving) and they can also ask him why the construction engineering technology program does not have ABET accreditation

http://www.etec.unt.edu/construction.html

""""The Department of Engineering Technology will seek accreditation at the appropriate time of the CNET program by the Technology Accreditation Commission of the Accreditation Board of Engineering and Technology (TAC of ABET)."""""

I am no longer at UNT....I left at least 5 years back when I had to wait 9+ months to try and get the final CS class I needed towards my degree and after talking with the CS adviser at the time he told me I did not need that class or the piece of paper because I had all the class work I needed and I already had a degree (in an entirely different subject)

I called royce west to talk about the south dallas campus because in addition to it being his pet project.....he is also the head of the Texas senate committee on higher education....and additionally I contacted the THECB

lets be clear again.....being a LARGE university in no way is any sign of quality....UNT has fine programs in some areas....unfortunately they often choose to under fund those programs specifically

I have been to multiple schools because I have moved often and took advantage of what was in the area I was in......I have had poor experiences at other schools and I have also performed poorly at other schools......but UNt was the only one that I felt was poorly managed from the top down.....and they are the only one I still see doing so many stupid, wasteful, and poorly planned things

in 2004 UNTs own estimates put the purchase price for the raddison at 7 million.....for some reason that same year or the year before UNT changed the lease on the raddison to go from 2043 to 2053

as for the new business building UNTs own information states is is dependent on raising private funds to complete it.....can anyone show me where those fund raising goals are and how much has been raised

ask your contacts if UNT did not discuss a future location of the COBA at the raddison in 2004 depending on what happened with the lease/purchase of the hotel

there will be no way for me to convey my opinions in a popular manner so I see no reason to try.....the information is there for all to see from credible sources and the "stories" I have can be easily verified by faculty that are still on campus and would be glad to discuss this with you

I suppose I could put it in the form of a poem or a Haiku, but that would just give ammo to those that would want to challenge my ability to rhyme or my ability to put things in 3 lines and my neglect to mention a season (football season) :lol:

Edited May 30, 2008 by CheckFacts

GreenMachine · May 30, 2008

with a SEVERE shortage of classroom space......one would think efforts would go into EXISTING universities......not building new failed campuses

Cerebus just wrote a very detailed post about all the new buildings and renovations on our main campus in Denton. You act like Denton is being completely ignored.

Cerebus · May 30, 2008

http://www.thecb.state.tx.us/ClosingtheGap..._pdf.cfm?Goal=1
THECB projections for enrollment.....UNT is at 41,000 in 2020......it was mentioned previously that UNT had a "mandate" for 45,000 by another forum member

The numbers I saw where 45k, though it was a hand out and I don't have an electronic copy. Lets say it is 41k, it still more than than the main campus can support today.

while I agree the 16 million might not have ever made it to Denton..........the 25 million that was BORROWED is certainly not being paid off by the 800 students in south dallas

The 25 million was allowed to be borrowed because it was for the new campus, there is no way you can know if the state would have allowed UNT to borrow that 25 million for other projects or not.

read the article....UNT is making NO FRIENDS at THECB right now and in a time when higher education dollars are hard to come by the fact UNT was able to fleece the tax payers fo Texas for 16.9 million is nothing to brag about......it is selfish and stinks of pigs feeding at the public trough......look at the degrees offered in south dallas........they better fit at a community college

How, exactly, do you know how the THECB feels about this project? The THECB could kill it next week if they wished. That they haven't mean they must think it shows some promise, though there is no doubt they are dissapointed in the growth so far.

with a SEVERE shortage of classroom space......one would think efforts would go into EXISTING universities......not building new failed campuses

Where on the main campus are the supposed to build?

if there is a long line to renovate buildings on campus....why is UNT buying more buildings and properties they have no idea what they will do with yet.....and why are they trying to start two other residential campuses.....when neither have met projections and one serves as a "ms manners" school for DISD kids

What? There is a long line to wait mainly because there is no space to put people while thier building is being redone, and no place to teach those classes. Masters didn't get torn down until after its replacement was built.

I had a number of other poor experiences with faculty at UNT...but those are personal stories that would be hard to verify.....but anyone can go to Dr. Jacobs office at any time and ask him when he was the acting chair of CS and the CS program was placed on ABET probation for lack of faculty was UNTs response to ask for a 5 year probation instead of a 3 year probation so they could wait 4 years to hire more faculty

You have had a number of poor experiences with people, have you thought your attitude might have something to do with it.

I was here when Jacobs was chair, I took a class from him, why are you bringing it up in a discussion about campus funding?

You obviously didn't enjoy your time at UNT, why are you just constantly bad mouthing everything. How is complain about what happened in the CSCI department years ago going to fix and problem?

ask your contacts if UNT did not discuss a future location of the COBA at the raddison in 2004 depending on what happened with the lease/purchase of the hotel

It was discussed, but so where 20 other sites, and the Raddison is not an option now.

So where did you get the information that it still was?

Cerebus · May 30, 2008

Also why not a law school and pharmacy school?

Just because they are not on the main campus? Doesn't make sense.

So you hate lawyers and think there are two many, fine, Dr. B is feeling generous, she won't go after one.

However, why not go after a pharmacy school? The state forecasts a severe shortage, should we not try to meet the need just because you are not in favor of other campuses.

untbowler · May 30, 2008

The numbers I saw where 45k, though it was a hand out and I don't have an electronic copy. Lets say it is 41k, it still more than than the main campus can support today.
The 25 million was allowed to be borrowed because it was for the new campus, there is no way you can know if the state would have allowed UNT to borrow that 25 million for other projects or not.
How, exactly, do you know how the THECB feels about this project? The THECB could kill it next week if they wished. That they haven't mean they must think it shows some promise, though there is no doubt they are dissapointed in the growth so far.
Where on the main campus are the supposed to build?
What? There is a long line to wait mainly because there is no space to put people while thier building is being redone, and no place to teach those classes. Masters didn't get torn down until after its replacement was built.
You have had a number of poor experiences with people, have you thought your attitude might have something to do with it.
I was here when Jacobs was chair, I took a class from him, why are you bringing it up in a discussion about campus funding?
You obviously didn't enjoy your time at UNT, why are you just constantly bad mouthing everything. How is complain about what happened in the CSCI department years ago going to fix and problem?

It was discussed, but so where 20 other sites, and the Raddison is not an option now.
So where did you get the information that it still was?

damn your sexy when your on top of the game.

J/K

thanks for the info.

Edited May 30, 2008 by untbowler

CheckFacts · May 30, 2008

how does my attitude play any part in a professor missing 2/3rds of a M-W-F class to the point where Matt Duncan (a CS admin at UNT) told out class that Dr. Kavi would allow any and all of us that desired to take the class again for free the next semester

how does my poor attitude play any part in the secretary for the Cs department walking into a class of 40+ students on the first day of class and informing us they did not have a professor yet to teach the class, but they were working on it

how does my poor attitude play a part in that "professor" being Zhi Lee a Phd candidate that had 4 lectures worth of another professors power point notes before she was left on her own to teach a class she was no prepared to teach.....to the point where other students that were older than I was at the time and better CS students would mess with her in class because they were bored

how does my poor attitude play a part in having a class taught by Mr Coyle who was a nice man, but was not even as able to teach the class as 3/4s of the students in that class were

how does my attitude play a part in the fact that at the time the COVAD had nicer general use computer labs available to art students only than the CS department had for CS students....CS students had to use GAB 330 or GAB 550 where you could be bumped from your computer after 2 hours even for someone who only wanted to browse the web....much less the monitors in gab 330 would ask you to not sit together and try and work together because you might disturb other students......even though you had a group CS assignment to work on

how does my poor attitude play a part in a number of faculty leaving including groups leaving together to go to UT-D and programs at UNt folding because of loss of professors.....all while the south dallas campus is pushing forward

how does my poor attitude play a part in Dr. Nagi Aboulinine (sp) standing before my class of CS students at the end of the first summer session and appologizing for having to cram the first semester CS class into one summer semester when it should be an entire summer class and he has recommended that UNT no longer offer those first two CS classes in single summer sessions (unt did change that) and that he was leaving academia because of the poor experiences he had at UNT

I bring up Dr. Jacobs because he is the one that stood before my class and explained why UNT was on ABET accreditation probation and there response was not to try and hire new faculty as soon as possible, but instead to ask for a 5 year probation instead of a 3 year probation so they could wait 4 years to hire new professors instead of 2 years

the CS department was looking for a new chair before Dr. Kavi came along....on their own site they had 800 under grads and 150 grad students....and 24 faculty members....which is why they were on ABET probation

they also only offered the final CS course that was needed for a degree once in each long semester because Dr Tate and 1 other professor were the only ones that would teach it.....so for 800 undergrads they only offered a core course 2 times a year and limited it to 45 students.......800/5 years (for a 5 year plan for students) = 160 students a year that could be looking to take that final course to graduate....when they only had 90 spots a year available....and were on ABET probation for lack of faculty...and UNt will not bump lower level students for graduating seniors......they were going to offer the course in the summer, but it was taught by Dr. Shahrokhi.....most every CS student considered him an ass so they would not take his class....I think I was the only one that signed up for it and it was canceled......during early registration for the fall when my time opened up.....the course was again already full.....so that is when I decided to leave UNT

the state does not have to approve borrowing and when a system borrows it goes against the entire system and limits what they can borrow in the future no matter where the money is spent....and you glossed over the fact that there are not near enough students in south dallas to pay those bonds off.....which means someone else is going to pay part of them

do the math on a 20 year bond that is over 1 million a year to be paid off in principle alone.....with under 1000 students there is no way south dallas students can pay off even the principle

I know how THECB feels about the project because I read the published articles and posted the links to where THECB is going to take steps to limit any new campuses or system centers in the future and they are going to go back to 3,500 students as the starting point for a free standing campus....all based on lack of performance by UNT and south dallas

I also read the articles where the THECB is going to limit ANY new funding to south dallas until enrollment limits are met....which means the UNT system with its limited resources and extremely small endowment will need to fund some of it themselves

it is all pretty clear

as for the COBA at the Raddison....it was discussed in the past and UNT has not raised the private money yet for a new COBA building....I am not saying the COBA will go to the raddison for sure....but UNT owns it now.....they discussed it in the past.....and it is the "cheap, low cost, easy" option.......which means it is what UNT will most likely do....because that is what UNT has a history of doing

and why no pharmacy or law school....because those programs are extremely expensive to start up and UNT has shown they are in over their heads in south dallas and downtown dallas....I see no reason to let them sink further

MeanMag · May 30, 2008

fifth there is talk of moving the hotel program to eagle point and now the COBA as well (look for the raddison to be the new COBA building)......the TI campus already has students.....more students should go there.......if students are unhappy about a bus to TI why would they be any less unhappy about being bussed to Eagle Point......it is not like it is actually close to campus and once I-35 construction starts it will be worse......and the fact that students don't like going to TI shows the poor planning of UNT.....they really don't need that property either....especially for undergrad classes.....and they do not have the research and graduate students to support a "research campus"....but the mistake has already been made.....might as well go with it instead of yet another mistake of putting academics at Eagle Point as well
Environmental Sciences was built a long time ago at this point and the COBA has yet to be funded or built and may soon turn out to be the Raddison
all of those buildings are nice, but with the exception of the Rec Center all those buildings are state funded under formula funding....while there is nothing wrong with building under formula funding.....there are a number of things happening OFF CAMPUS and IN DALLAS that should be located IN DENTON or associated with the Denton campus.....as of now the Law School (God Forbid UNT is allowed to start one) will be attached to the south dallas campus as will a pharmacy program (God Forbid UNT gets one of those and it will be a long ways away if ever)
the fashion collection built by the faculty in Denton with no permanent place to show it in Denton is now the center piece of a 14 million dollar campaign to build out a facility to house it in downtown dallas as an economic development tool........that 14 million should be spent in Denton where the collection was assembled
in 2004 UNT planned for 3 million in Art Building renovations to start in 2007-2009....I have seen no progress on this
UNT has also talked about an Art Annex and larger area for working on projects....I have seen no progress on this
again if you are OK with professional programs being attached to the south dallas campus that is your opinion.....if you are OK with 14 million being raised to finish out a museum in downtown dallas to house a collection build by faculty in DENTON that is your opinion

The Professional Programs will not leave Denton, namely business. The TI plant is a great acquisition at a great price. It gives great space for engineers to stretch out. In the time my brother spent in the engineering program he complained about having to visit the main campus because all but one of his classes were out there. Although, he didn't complain so much, because it was his one opportunity to admire the opposite sex that semester.

The sky is not falling at UNT-Denton as you make it out to be, but I do agree that if a law school were to be approved, I would want it affiliated with the main campus and not a UNT-D spinoff. I really don't like the idea of UNT putting all of it's financial power at this time into starting up another school that will take students away from the main campus. Honestly, I have no problem with putting the art depts. expansion on hold.

Cerebus · May 30, 2008

how does my attitude play any part <A WHOLE BUNCH OF CS FOO>

I don't know, I also don't how it has thing one to do with Mean Green athletics, or University planning. So stop bringing up your CS sob stories. This is a forum primarily for Mean Green Athletics. I am sure there is some CS forum out there, this isn't it.

the state does not have to approve borrowing and when a system borrows it goes against the entire system and limits what they can borrow in the future no matter where the money is spent....

My understanding is the school does have to have state permission to borrow funds. And, the article you yourself posted stated that the state ALLOWED the school to borrow the money, which in my mind indicates the ability to NOT ALLOW it to borrow money.

"Since 1999, the state has given UNT $16.69 million for the center's programs and allowed it to borrow $25 million for construction

and you glossed over the fact that there are not near enough students in south dallas to pay those bonds off.....which means someone else is going to pay part of them

So I guess every program/center/school/college that can't afford to cover all its costs has to be cut. I guess we ARE going to have plenty of space on campus. Problem solved. You sir, are a genius.

I know how THECB feels about the project because I read the published articles and posted the links to where THECB is going to take steps to limit any new campuses or system centers in the future and they are going to go back to 3,500 students as the starting point for a free standing campus....all based on lack of performance by UNT and south dallas

Like I already typed, the THECB could kill that project tomorrow if they felt it was such an error.

I also read the articles where the THECB is going to limit ANY new funding to south dallas until enrollment limits are met....which means the UNT system with its limited resources and extremely small endowment will need to fund some of it themselves

Now, its been a couple of months since I spoke with the right administrators, and I guess I should go look the numbers up, but I really have work I need to get to, so off the top of my head the campus is a couple hundred off the enrollment number, and the THECB hasn't cut ANY funding to the campus.

as for the COBA at the Raddison....it was discussed in the past and UNT has not raised the private money yet for a new COBA building....I am not saying the COBA will go to the raddison for sure....but UNT owns it now.....they discussed it in the past.....and it is the "cheap, low cost, easy" option.......which means it is what UNT will most likely do....because that is what UNT has a history of doing

I really want to know why you think it is a current option, it is not.

and why no pharmacy or law school....because those programs are extremely expensive to start up and UNT has shown they are in over their heads in south dallas and downtown dallas....I see no reason to let them sink further

That doesn't make sense. The state thinks these programs are needed desperately, some school is going to get funding for a new pharmacy school and a new law school (also, possibly a new vet school, but UNT seems to have no plans to try for that), so why not us? Why wouldn't we go after prestigious new schools that would pull in state funding?

May 30, 2008

All the CS sobs stories.. I think I heard some morose goth muzak in the background.

When I was in school, only suckas used the school's computers. They only went there to print. Everything was turned in electronically.

Also, Dr. Steve Tate is such a pimp that I would wait a semester to get enrolled in his course -- if it were full.

I don't know.. but those 800 undergrads that you speak of.. 200 of them (yes, I am man enough to admit I made that stat up) are taking 1110 and 1120 beginner courses for COBA or whatever other courses they require.. 200 more of those students are taking the 1050 CS basics course (made that course number up too). 200 1/2 more are taking 2010 and will soon drop CSCI ambitions (like yourself) and blame it upon other stuff. The remaining numbers will fit into the 3100, 3400, 4010, etc etc, that is required to graduate.

Using Jacob as your source.. oy.. he is 3/4th insane.

Every school has this. Trust me. I went to UT-Austin CS... it was no different. Except, instead of having a professor teaching you, you had a grad student that didn't *really* know their stuff.. They were teaching to get their UT stipend.

Sure, UT-Dallas has a great program. We have a lot of their grads at my place.. along with UNT, A&M and UT. I am not sure any of them (from my hiring and mentoring sampling) can claim better quality output. If anything, I think UNT grads have better communication and problem solving skills. Just an opinion. Not a fact.