Western Kentucky (12/29/12)

Ok. This coaching staff has issues, so now what?? What is your point or goal of this post? Do we give up on the team? Stop going to games? Call for the heads of the coaches and RV? Then what? Keep bitching?? What is gained from negativity?

I would hope acknowledgement that there is a problem and then finding a way to fix the problem.

Or we could just watch the accomplishments of the last 10 years of UNT basketball be washed down the drain.

Then again, that is what we are oh so good at doing.

Edited December 30, 2012 by UNT90

Ok. This coaching staff has issues, so now what?? What is your point or goal of this post? Do we give up on the team? Stop going to games? Call for the heads of the coaches and RV? Then what? Keep bitching?? What is gained from negativity?

Why dont we give everyone a ribbon for trying....

Lets turn this story around a little bit... Lets say that you started a new job and you are not meeting expectations, not even by a little but completely over whelmed. Not only are you ruining your career but youre ruining others. What would your boss do?? Fire you before things get worst, or keep you and tell you that youre still learning and everything is ok and hoping things will get better??

or keep you and tell you that youre still learning and everything is ok and hoping things will get better??

This is exactly why most of my anger is focused on RV at this point. Why did we hire a coach who is "still learning" in TM's last season here.

What scares me the most is that Benford was never apart of

developing High School Talent while at Marquette.

I'm sure it's about the same at his other stops as well. I mean he did recruit George to Arizona State. He couldn't see the floor there , but has somehow found good minutes on a NBA D League team.

I know he also recruited Zo to the Big XII. I love Zo to death , but the guy was a average belt player at best. I'm too lazy to look those up , but that is just what pops in my head.

A look at HS talent brought in by Benford & Staff while at Marquette

2008 - Chris Otule. He's in his 5th season. Has averaged 15 minutes & 4.5 ppg for his career. Over the past 6 games , which he has started , has scored 7 total points

2009 - Junior Cadougan. 4 star player from Houston. Ranked 13th best PG in nation. Has averaged 5 points 4 assist & 2 turnovers a game for his career

2009 - Jeronne Maymon. Ranked #47th best player. Left the team after only 9 games - Story. Was averaging 4 points , 4 rebounds a game at the time. Last year Maymon averaged 12.7 ppg , 8 boards & went on to SEC 2nd team honors

2009 - Erik Williams. Averaged 2.2 points , 1.6 boards a game in 2 seasons. Left , now at Sam Houston State

2010 - Vander Blue. The best of the bunch. A local 5 star recruit who stayed home. Has averaged 7.6 points a game for his career and his ASST to TO ratio is about dead even

2010 - Jamail Jones. Ranked #52 overall player in the 2010 class. Averaged 1.5 points & 7 minutes a game in his 2 year stay. Left the team and is currently sitting this year out at Florida Gulf Coast

2010 - Reggie Smith .Ranked as the #112 overall player in the 2010 class. Averaged 1.4 points & 1.6 turnovers a game in his brief 8 game stay. Left the team and is currently sitting this year out at Eastern Ill

* Also in the 2010 class is TJ Taylor , who also left and is currently here

2011 - Juan Anderson. 4 star recruit who was ranked as the #61st overall player in the class. Currently averaging 3.7 points & 15 minutes a game this season. Only played in 4.5 minutes a game last season (24 games)

2011 - Todd Mayo. 3 star recruit who averaged 7.9 ppg last season. Has only played in 2 games this season ( non starts) Might be injury related ?

2011 - Derrick Wilson. 3 star recruit who has averaged 1.1 points & 10 .5 minutes a game so far in his 45 games played

It's too early to judge the 2012 class , but they have already lost 1 signing in Aaron Durley , who left and is sitting this season out at TCU

Edited December 30, 2012 by NT03

I certainly don't want to add gas to the fire....but. a good friend of mine was behind your bench and he said your boy is in over his head. On one play you guys had trapped George Fant in the corner. He made a perfect skip pass to an open 3. You guys had done nothing wrong. George just happened to make a very good play. Benford reamed your players about their rotation. Sometimes you can do everything right and the other guy makes a play. That's 'tip your cap' time. But he didn't know what he was talking about. We know what you're going through after our bout with McDummy. I followed the SIU board and watched it devolve as their fans turned on Lowery. Ours devolved the same way. You have a couple apologists but most educated fans can tell when someone is lost. Complaining on message boards 'might' have some impact but what got the dummy fired was declining attendance. I just don't see any way short of a massive scandal that your university would even consider getting rid of Benford. There is still time to turn this season around. We went to the NCAA tourney with a losing record. If you play the way you did last night coupled with our conference you'll start winning some games. I hope it begins at Middle. Btw, he didn't kill us last night but I've always really liked Franklin. He's a high motor player and a class act. At least when we've faced him.

Also in the 2009 class is Youssoupha Mbao. Left after only 10 games. Now playing at Marshall

I certainly don't want to add gas to the fire....but. a good friend of mine was behind your bench and he said your boy is in over his head. On one play you guys had trapped George Fant in the corner. He made a perfect skip pass to an open 3. You guys had done nothing wrong. George just happened to make a very good play. Benford reamed your players about their rotation. Sometimes you can do everything right and the other guy makes a play. That's 'tip your cap' time. But he didn't know what he was talking about. We know what you're going through after our bout with McDummy. I followed the SIU board and watched it devolve as their fans turned on Lowery. Ours devolved the same way. You have a couple apologists but most educated fans can tell when someone is lost. Complaining on message boards 'might' have some impact but what got the dummy fired was declining attendance. I just don't see any way short of a massive scandal that your university would even consider getting rid of Benford. There is still time to turn this season around. We went to the NCAA tourney with a losing record. If you play the way you did last night coupled with our conference you'll start winning some games. I hope it begins at Middle. Btw, he didn't kill us last night but I've always really liked Franklin. He's a high motor player and a class act. At least when we've faced him.

Still acting like an assistant coach.

Bad times ahead. You guys turned it around after you fired McDummy, as you call him, and were a completely different team than the one we destroyed when they came to Denton 6 days after you guys fired McDonald. I don't see us ever firing Benford this season, so I don't see a turn around.

I feel very bad for our players.

There needs to be some accountibility for the start to this season. I for one will not be happy with a record in the .500 area. This team was built to win the western division and get to the NCAA Tourny. We know what our players can do, so I'm going to blame Benford. I wish our leadership would would hold him to a higher standard. I know he is a first year coach, but the guy was handed a perfect situation for winning, and has done nothing.

I think most fans believed North Texas would be the best college basketball team in DFW. Right now SMU, TCU, and UTA are all better. In my opinion that is on Benford. Something needs to be done soon.

Ok. This coaching staff has issues, so now what?? What is your point or goal of this post? Do we give up on the team? Stop going to games? Call for the heads of the coaches and RV? Then what? Keep bitching?? What is gained from negativity?

The reality is that this is a message board, which is meant for bitching and moaning. The losing part will stop people from coming to games, not the internet griping. And I do think that RV should be considered on the hot seat here. His hire has truly handicapped us for at least 5 years, if not way more. There is nothing that can be done about Benford--he will be here for at least three years of his contract, most likely four. There is no $$$ to buy this out any sooner than that, unless we whore ourselves out to a Trilli-esque non-conference schedule, which might be done anyway, to make up for the drop in attendance.

This will go down as the worst hire in a money sport in the history of North Texas, at the rate we are going and with what we had coming back. Everyone can see that Benford is in over his head. Now, there is nothing we can do about it, except lay the blame on the person who brought him here--which happens to be the same person who hired Todd Dodge, Shanice Stephens, and Benford. That would be a fireable offense at so many other places to just make one of those hires. RV is just lucky that we don't care enough about athletics at this school to erase mistakes. We don't have T.Boone running things here. So, in the end, RV stays because he's a nice guy and says all the right things about the Mean Green and is fan-friendly. And Benford stays, too. And our basetball program, which had finally risen to a point that the local media actually cared about it a little bit and knew it was the best in DFW, will now solidly be 4th. And there is literally nothing that can or will be done about it. It sucks to be poor...

The reality is that this is a message board, which is meant for bitching and moaning. The losing part will stop people from coming to games, not the internet griping. And I do think that RV should be considered on the hot seat here. His hire has truly handicapped us for at least 5 years, if not way more. There is nothing that can be done about Benford--he will be here for at least three years of his contract, most likely four. There is no $$$ to buy this out any sooner than that, unless we whore ourselves out to a Trilli-esque non-conference schedule, which might be done anyway, to make up for the drop in attendance.

This will go down as the worst hire in a money sport in the history of North Texas, at the rate we are going and with what we had coming back. Everyone can see that Benford is in over his head. Now, there is nothing we can do about it, except lay the blame on the person who brought him here--which happens to be the same person who hired Todd Dodge, Shanice Stephens, and Benford. That would be a fireable offense at so many other places to just make one of those hires. RV is just lucky that we don't care enough about athletics at this school to erase mistakes. We don't have T.Boone running things here. So, in the end, RV stays because he's a nice guy and says all the right things about the Mean Green and is fan-friendly. And Benford stays, too. And our basetball program, which had finally risen to a point that the local media actually cared about it a little bit and knew it was the best in DFW, will now solidly be 4th. And there is literally nothing that can or will be done about it. It sucks to be poor...

You find a way to do something about it. If not, you lose so much more than what paying off that contract will cost.

Has this university finaly learned this lesson? Time will tell.

Edited December 30, 2012 by UNT90

There truly is nothing that we can do. The "business model" is completely broken.

Imagine that company X sells cars. Company X appoints a guy (let's call him Bob) to hire salesmen for and manage all of their dealerships. The two biggest "revenue" dealerships are in Dallas and Houston. Bob hires a salesman for the Dallas dealership who came from selling go-carts....and gives him a long contract. The salesman brings his assistant go-cart salesmen with him and they attempt to sell cars the way they sold go-carts. For four years sales numbers drop dramatically and long time customers are lost. But, during the go-cart salesman's tenure a new dealership is funded (by customers) so Bob gets credit for this. Let's say that Bob also hires a new salesman for the Houston dealership....and gives him a long contract though he has never been a head salesman before. This dealership recently lost its head salesman to a larger company after posting car sales numbers unlike any in this dealership's history. The new head salesman immediately posts abysmal sales numbers. Pathetic, wretched numbers. But the sales numbers are laid at the feet of the junior salesmen who are accused of not being "mature" enough to handle the new sales plan...the same folks who posted great numbers under the old head salesman. (And this doesnt even take into account the HORRIBLE head sales lady that Bob hired at the Austin dealership). You'd probably let Bob go wouldn't you? Not so fast...Bob is best buddies with the chairman of company X's board. Nobody in this entire organization is touchable. None of them. And Company X is expected to compete somehow in the marketplace.

Edited December 30, 2012 by emmitt01

Frustrating thing is Benford said his expectations were to be a great team (20+ wins)...I'd like to hear from him his assessment on how we are doing and how he measures their performance? Walton certainly isn't the reason for this, given the talent we have, any good coach could design a game plan for us to be successful...still waiting to see even a glimpse of this.

I guess Benford was so focused on his hoop hugs or whatever he called them before the season started, and caused him to forget how to coach a basketball team. Fire Benford

There truly is nothing that we can do. The "business model" is completely broken.

Imagine that company X sells cars. Company X appoints a guy (let's call him Bob) to hire salesmen for and manage all of their dealerships. The two biggest "revenue" dealerships are in Dallas and Houston. Bob hires a salesman for the Dallas dealership who came from selling go-carts....and gives him a long contract. The salesman brings his assistant go-cart salesmen with him and they attempt to sell cars the way they sold go-carts. For four years sales numbers drop dramatically and long time customers are lost. But, during the go-cart salesman's tenure a new dealership is funded (by customers) so Bob gets credit for this. Let's say that Bob also hires a new salesman for the Houston dealership....and gives him a long contract though he has never been a head salesman before. This dealership recently lost its head salesman to a larger company after posting car sales numbers unlike any in this dealership's history. The new head salesman immediately posts abysmal sales numbers. Pathetic, wretched numbers. But the sales numbers are laid at the feet of the junior salesmen who are accused of not being "mature" enough to handle the new sales plan...the same folks who posted great numbers under the old head salesman. (And this doesnt even take into account the HORRIBLE head sales lady that Bob hired at the Austin dealership). You'd probably let Bob go wouldn't you? Not so fast...Bob is best buddies with the chairman of company X's board. Nobody in this entire organization is touchable. None of them. And Company X is expected to compete somehow in the marketplace.

You forgot to mention that "Bob" couldn't ever get that new dealership approved, but one of the "customers" actually led a campaign to get it approved, only because they kept Bob as silent as possible and basically got it passed by keeping the election on the lowdown, knowing that most of the citizens of that locality would've done everything possible to vote for its approval. The citizenry likes music, arts, education, and nature, but has generally loathed athletics, particularly ones that require money. And, yet, somehow "Bob" got a job in this company and said to the few citizens that cared, "Let's actually cater to you, by letting you tailgate in the parking lot. I'll tell everyone that we are a sleeping giant!! I'll make you feel like you just bought a Mercedes instead of a lemon." The few that care are totally mesmerized by this, since they have been treated so poorly for decades. They think that he will bring in the best sales directors possible, since we are in a hotbed for trucks and SUVs. Nevermind that he only hires go-car salespeople. And, somehow, the Board of Directors, who actually love the arts, music, education, nature, etc...are thrilled by RV. He doesn't cost much, he talks up a good game, and doesn't get in the way of any of their beloved "interests". So, in the end, the dealer will continue to trump up its one great bit of recognition that it ever gets--the cost of the product is very affordable as compared to other dealers like ours. What a great "value"...

We've been sold a bill of goods here. And there's nothing we can do about it, since the Better Business Bureau (local media) absolutely don't give two $hits about the dealer's cars or personnel.

Edited December 30, 2012 by untjim1995

This season is horrible in every way possible. What a let down. Will Tony still leave?

Maybe there's a chance he'll stay if we reassign TB. If we don't, why would TM think that next season would turn out any differently? I'd like to be a fly on the wall when the players discuss their feelings toward Benford. If RV's worth his salt, he should be working on discovering what those feelings are ASAP.

I feel very bad for our players.

THIS.

I certainly don't want to add gas to the fire....but. a good friend of mine was behind your bench and he said your boy is in over his head. On one play you guys had trapped George Fant in the corner. He made a perfect skip pass to an open 3. You guys had done nothing wrong. George just happened to make a very good play. Benford reamed your players about their rotation. Sometimes you can do everything right and the other guy makes a play. That's 'tip your cap' time. But he didn't know what he was talking about. We know what you're going through after our bout with McDummy. I followed the SIU board and watched it devolve as their fans turned on Lowery. Ours devolved the same way. You have a couple apologists but most educated fans can tell when someone is lost. Complaining on message boards 'might' have some impact but what got the dummy fired was declining attendance. I just don't see any way short of a massive scandal that your university would even consider getting rid of Benford. There is still time to turn this season around. We went to the NCAA tourney with a losing record. If you play the way you did last night coupled with our conference you'll start winning some games. I hope it begins at Middle. Btw, he didn't kill us last night but I've always really liked Franklin. He's a high motor player and a class act. At least when we've faced him.

I particularly like the made UNT 3 pointer that Benford nullified with a T.O. It would have made the score 61-58 I believe. Nothing like waiting for a player to work his way open for a 3 point shot, let him get his rythm and then call Time Out. The local sports anchore had some negative feedback on the 10 o'clock news about Mitchell looking anything BUT like an early NBA draft pick. Folks, TM got owned by WKU bench warmers from a rebuilding program.

Although UNT wasn't quite as bad as I had imagined, there are definitely some fatal flaws with this team, Mostly fundamentals. Some of the things NT did last night just makes my head explode. Like, why in the hell does NT start their ½ court offense so far from the goal on an inbounds ? Even the WKU radio announcer mentioned that on air.

Edited December 31, 2012 by Harry

I hope it begins at Middle. Btw, he didn't kill us last night but I've always really liked Franklin. He's a high motor player and a class act. At least when we've faced him.

Franklin and Alzee Williams are two of the hardest working players of the past two years I've seen

I hope people aren't confusing a loss of faith in the head coach with a lack of support for the team/players.

You forgot to mention that "Bob" couldn't ever get that new dealership approved, but one of the "customers" actually led a campaign to get it approved, only because they kept Bob as silent as possible and basically got it passed by keeping the election on the lowdown, knowing that most of the citizens of that locality would've done everything possible to vote for its approval. The citizenry likes music, arts, education, and nature, but has generally loathed athletics, particularly ones that require money. And, yet, somehow "Bob" got a job in this company and said to the few citizens that cared, "Let's actually cater to you, by letting you tailgate in the parking lot. I'll tell everyone that we are a sleeping giant!! I'll make you feel like you just bought a Mercedes instead of a lemon." The few that care are totally mesmerized by this, since they have been treated so poorly for decades. They think that he will bring in the best sales directors possible, since we are in a hotbed for trucks and SUVs. Nevermind that he only hires go-car salespeople. And, somehow, the Board of Directors, who actually love the arts, music, education, nature, etc...are thrilled by RV. He doesn't cost much, he talks up a good game, and doesn't get in the way of any of their beloved "interests". So, in the end, the dealer will continue to trump up its one great bit of recognition that it ever gets--the cost of the product is very affordable as compared to other dealers like ours. What a great "value"...

We've been sold a bill of goods here. And there's nothing we can do about it, since the Better Business Bureau (local media) absolutely don't give two $hits about the dealer's cars or personnel.

I don't get why RV would be untouchable, but I also don't know any BOR members or insiders. I seriously think that you have to give consideration to firing RV for this Benford hire. We have unprecedented tv coverage for this basketball team this year, only to show the world our blazing dumpster fire of a coaching hire. This is the biggest screw up in program history. With Todd Dodge already on his resume, that is saying something.

I don't get why RV would be untouchable, but I also don't know any BOR members or insiders. I seriously think that you have to give consideration to firing RV for this Benford hire. We have unprecedented tv coverage for this basketball team this year, only to show the world our blazing dumpster fire of a coaching hire. This is the biggest screw up in program history. With Todd Dodge already on his resume, that is saying something.

It really is amazing in the size of this colossal mistake--I understood the gamble on Todd Dodge. Someone was going to hire him to be a head coach eventually because of the reasons we did. Plus, we had to pay off Dickey's remaining years and could pay Dodge basically the same amount of money. With Benford, we weren't paying off any remaining years for Johnny Jones, we had a top 10 pick in the making on our team, and we had some good names to choose from that have actually been a head coach. Instead, we give this unproven guy five years, knowing that if he did succeed, Tech was going to buy him away as soon as possible and we would be back in this search again. I've supported RV for years, but this is unacceptable. It should be a fireable offense, too. We are stuck with this for the next 5 years, whether Benford stays or not beyond the next three years. Benford's coaching is on par with Trilli's, for which it took us over 5 years to get over. Its why I expected it take McCarney a few years to build a winner here in football. You are literally trying to build up from below ground level.

I don't get why RV would be untouchable, but I also don't know any BOR members or insiders. I seriously think that you have to give consideration to firing RV for this Benford hire. We have unprecedented tv coverage for this basketball team this year, only to show the world our blazing dumpster fire of a coaching hire. This is the biggest screw up in program history. With Todd Dodge already on his resume, that is saying something.

Let me preface this by saying that I am in no way defending the Benford hire, but...

Lots of folks were eager for JJ to move on. There were many "JJ can't get us to the next level" posts on here. I'll admit, that thought crossed my mind a time or two, also.

Well, sometimes we need to be careful what we wish for, as the Benford hire has so sadistically driven this point home.

Edited December 31, 2012 by UNT90

Let me preface this by saying that I am in no way defending the Benford hire, but...

Lots of folks were eager for JJ to move on. There were many "JJ can't get us to the next level" posts on here. I'll admit, that thought crossed my mind a time or two, also.

Well, sometimes we need to be careful what we wish for, as the Benford hire has so sadistically driven this point home.

I would've taken a bet that we would've taken the next step this year if JJ was still here. This was his most talented team and he knew it. Damn you, LSU, with all your money and your advantages for JJ...

In all honesty, though, I was thrilled that JJ got to go home to coach at his alma mater. Its one of the neatest things a coach could ever get the opportunity to do, even if it doesn't work out in the end. He deserves everything he's received.

Edited December 31, 2012 by untjim1995

Let me preface this by saying that I am in no way defending the Benford hire, but...

Lots of folks were eager for JJ to move on. There were many "JJ can't get us to the next level" posts on here. I'll admit, that thought crossed my mind a time or two, also.

Well, sometimes we need to be careful what we wish for, as the Benford hire has so sadistically driven this point home.

I don't get what this post has to do with mine....but, screw the JJ comparisions and go right to DD if you want to bring up the "grass isn't always greener" narrative. DD would have had the 2007 squad back to 6-6 had he not been fired....not great, but definitely not the cliff dive we took with Dodge.

I was not one who wanted to see JJ leave. I never thought he was a great in-game coach, but always admired the way he slowly built our program up over time---and he did it the way we NEED to be doing it in football AND basketball: by scheduling wins. It made sense to schedule some tougher competition in basketball THIS year IF JJ was still here. With a new and unproven coach, we should have sandbagged this schedule as much as humanly possible. Let those guys get to 10 wins before January against Cameron, etc....build up confidence in the new coaching staff and system (or lack thereof). Let attendance continue to build, Tony Mitchell's draft stock rise, etc....instead, we have a full blown disaster on our hands.

First time head coaches should not be able to walk in here on their own terms and without training wheels. Dodge should not have been allowed to bring in high school level offensive and defensive coordinators, and we shouldn't have been playing Creighton to open up the season.

Look at the schedule JJ setup for his first season at LSU. They play 7 home games against inferior competition to open the schedule, then went on the road to a winnable Boise St (though they lost), UC Irvine and Marquette. In their first 12 games, only 2-3 were games they wouldn't be favored by double digits. They'll start the conference season with at least 10 wins and he'll have a chance to post a 20 win season down there in his first season on the job even if they struggle in conference.

Dan McCarney used this same philosophy to build up Iowa St and would be doing the same thing here if we had the money to avoid so many body bag games. He will eventually lead our football team back to respectability. But Dan McCarney was hand-picked by Pres. Rawlins and Neinas....not RV (from everything I've heard).

I don't get what this post has to do with mine....but, screw the JJ comparisions and go right to DD if you want to bring up the "grass isn't always greener" narrative. DD would have had the 2007 squad back to 6-6 had he not been fired....not great, but definitely not the cliff dive we took with Dodge.

I was not one who wanted to see JJ leave. I never thought he was a great in-game coach, but always admired the way he slowly built our program up over time---and he did it the way we NEED to be doing it in football AND basketball: by scheduling wins. It made sense to schedule some tougher competition in basketball THIS year IF JJ was still here. With a new and unproven coach, we should have sandbagged this schedule as much as humanly possible. Let those guys get to 10 wins before January against Cameron, etc....build up confidence in the new coaching staff and system (or lack thereof). Let attendance continue to build, Tony Mitchell's draft stock rise, etc....instead, we have a full blown disaster on our hands.

First time head coaches should not be able to walk in here on their own terms and without training wheels. Dodge should not have been allowed to bring in high school level offensive and defensive coordinators, and we shouldn't have been playing Creighton to open up the season.

Look at the schedule JJ setup for his first season at LSU. They play 7 home games against inferior competition to open the schedule, then went on the road to a winnable Boise St (though they lost), UC Irvine and Marquette. In their first 12 games, only 2-3 were games they wouldn't be favored by double digits. They'll start the conference season with at least 10 wins and he'll have a chance to post a 20 win season down there in his first season on the job even if they struggle in conference.

Dan McCarney used this same philosophy to build up Iowa St and would be doing the same thing here if we had the money to avoid so many body bag games. He will eventually lead our football team back to respectability. But Dan McCarney was hand-picked by Pres. Rawlins and Neinas....not RV (from everything I've heard).

You can't do this. Was Dodge then Gretchen's hire?

RV gets credit for the good hires and blame for the bad. That is the nature of the job. RV supporters come on here and say "he wasn't responsible for shanice or Dodge," well, that's BS, just as those who say Rawlins was responsible for the Mac hire are full of it.

RV is the AD. He hires and fires coaches. Plain and simple.

Edited December 31, 2012 by UNT90