UNT Pro Day

Honestly, a lot of what they measure are not necessarily indicative of on field performance. It is informative to look at a 40 time, but does not tell you how fast they are in pads in different conditions one might see on the field. Bench and squat are probably the worst as they do not completely translate to what will be required during play although broad jump is in the running for that title.

I think alot of the old guys will still point at Larry Allen's dominance as a testament to scouting bench press strength.

I think alot of the old guys will still point at Larry Allen's dominance as a testament to scouting bench press strength.

Allen was extremely strong, that was just a bonus He was freaking cat quick and fast. Those "three" in combination made him exceptional!

Thank you. I've always felt bench was terrible metric to determine strength and appreciate the work Wintrich does in a compiling full-body regimen that builds strength not just the glamorous and aesthetically pleasing way something like a bench-focus would, but also tone, injury-resistance and endurance.

Don't know if this has been posted or not.

http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/north-texas-football-performance-the-development-of-a-multi-year-system-of-training-for-collegiate-football-players/

Allen was extremely strong, that was just a bonus He was freaking cat quick and fast. Those "three" in combination made him exceptional!

Yep

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztHfr5uBIqk

Don't know if this has been posted or not.

http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/north-texas-football-performance-the-development-of-a-multi-year-system-of-training-for-collegiate-football-players/

This is so, so well written.

Thank you. I've always felt bench was terrible metric to determine strength and appreciate the work Wintrich does in a compiling full-body regimen that builds strength not just the glamorous and aesthetically pleasing way something like a bench-focus would, but also tone, injury-resistance and endurance.

So, you guys are saying a one rep, max weight would be more field related?

Problem is, O linemen have to have the strength to hold that block for 5 to 6 seconds, so a little more than one rep.

Max on 5 reps?

300lb+ linemen with 4 years inside a D1 weight room should be able to rep 225 20+ times, no exceptions. Otherwise it's frowned upon as it should be. A buddy of mine a few years ago could rep 225 28 times and it was after about a year of serious weightlifting. He is 6'3 245, so when a guy bigger than that can't touch 20 it's concerning.

300lb+ linemen with 4 years inside a D1 weight room should be able to rep 225 20+ times, no exceptions. Otherwise it's frowned upon as it should be. A buddy of mine a few years ago could rep 225 28 times and it was after about a year of serious weightlifting. He is 6'3 245, so when a guy bigger than that can't touch 20 it's concerning.

Can your friend line up snap after snap in Div 1 football with his 28 presses?

Don't know if this has been posted or not.

http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/north-texas-football-performance-the-development-of-a-multi-year-system-of-training-for-collegiate-football-players/

Thank you for this.

Wintrich was not without NFL draftees on his resume while at USF...

2010 1 15 15 Jason Pierre-Paul Giants DE 2 5 37 Nate Allen Eagles DB 3 1 65 Jerome Murphy Rams DB 6 8 177 Carlton Mitchell Browns WR 7 19 226 George Selvie Rams DE 2009 3 33 97 Tyrone McKenzie Patriots LB 2008 1 25 25 Mike Jenkins Cowboys DB 5 24 159 Trae Williams Jaguars DB 2007 4 10 109 Stephen Nicholas Falcons LB

April 17th is the Cowboys' "Dallas Day". I'm anxious to hear how many of our guys are involved.

So, you guys are saying a one rep, max weight would be more field related?

Problem is, O linemen have to have the strength to hold that block for 5 to 6 seconds, so a little more than one rep.

Max on 5 reps?

No, I am saying that too much stock is placed in that number. A bench press uses one muscle group to achieve while blocking a person requires multiple muscle groups while moving and reacting. Seems like a bench press is more of an interesting result than indicative of on field performance.

Can your friend line up snap after snap in Div 1 football with his 28 presses?

no, he's in pitiful cardio shape. Which is understandably apart of y'all's point.

No, I am saying that too much stock is placed in that number. A bench press uses one muscle group to achieve while blocking a person requires multiple muscle groups while moving and reacting. Seems like a bench press is more of an interesting result than indicative of on field performance.

My point.

But I promise you if one of our lineman had pushed out 40 reps, everyone would be talking about how he is worthy of a 1st round pick.

Justification

Edited April 4, 2014 by UNT90

My point.

But I promise you if one of our lineman had pushed out 40 reps, everyone would be talking about how he is worthy of a 1st round pick.

Justification

Yeah, and I think I would be just as skeptical of it, but happy that one of our own had a great drill.

So, you guys are saying a one rep, max weight would be more field related?

Problem is, O linemen have to have the strength to hold that block for 5 to 6 seconds, so a little more than one rep.

Max on 5 reps?

forevereagle made my point a bit about bench really only demonstrating strength in one muscle group (and if a strength-program is focused on just developing one muscle group for one test you have a very unbalanced and injury-prone athlete)

I don't necessarily have a better metric given the time constraints scouts are working under...no way they could stick around and give ten different strength tests at every pro-day. What about a standard weighted practice-dummy sled and see how far a player could move it in 8, 10 seconds? It would demonstrate better both a players upper-body strength and their lower-body explosiveness.

Thanks for the great info, gents!

Wanted to be there, but just couldn't pull it off with my work schedule this week. Seems like it was really exciting watching our guys showing what they've got.

So, you guys are saying a one rep, max weight would be more field related?

Problem is, O linemen have to have the strength to hold that block for 5 to 6 seconds, so a little more than one rep.

Max on 5 reps?

No, but seeing how many reps they can push is not an accurate measure of football strength. The bench press, while mainly a chest exercise that also includes deltoids and triceps, does not replicate what is done on the field and isn't nearly as important to a WR as it is an OL who must absorb a rush, for instance. Plus, variables such as limb length can effect the results. The lift, as conducted by the combine, tests muscular endurance, because it emphasizes high reps. Power and explosiveness are measured more through the amount lifted 6 to 8 times successfully. Also, a full bench rep that requires the barbell to touch the chest at the bottom of the movement exerts a large amount of stress on the shoulder joint at the beginning of the lift phase of the exercise and doesn't immediately fire the pecs. Again, like the back squat and deadlift, the bench press has historically been used as a marker of strength, but it doesn't really replicate what the players do when executing the responsibilities of their position. Edited April 5, 2014 by UNTLifer

I have been told by several exercise physiologists that they believe the vertical jump is the best single measure of athletic ability.

I have been told by several exercise physiologists that they believe the vertical jump is the best single measure of athletic ability.

Im not buying that. I think athleticism is determined by cone drills + vertical jump. You might be able to jump 40, but have 2 left feet.

Me thinks the uninformed masses (myself included) focus on the 40 times and bench reps because we an process those pretty easily.

I am sure there is a reason the people doing the evaluations put them through several additional drills, tests, interviews, etc...