UNT lands JC offensive lineman Justin Manu

Maybe because Lincoln, Orr, and Boutwell are all really DEs??

Sure, that is why Boutwell has started two years at DT, and Lincoln has always played inside. Lets just slot all players by weight, nothing else seemed to matter.

Edited December 19, 2012 by GrandGreen

We just landed a JUCO All American OL. That is a big win for UNT. Depth at OL is never a bad thing.

Watch the video --- this guy can play!! Nice pickup for us no doubt! Hearing Chico may have reeled this one in so good work on his part!

Watch the video --- this guy can play!! Nice pickup for us no doubt! Hearing Chico may have reeled this one in so good work on his part!

Sounds like the Snow connection worked!

I'm going to eat some major crow here... But with the signing of JUCO help on O-Line, it appears that Cam Feldt is not regarded as an answer to fill in next season (or not anticipated to make any impact).

Good call Dr. Seuss.

I think thats the first time anyone on the board has given me credit... I dont know what to do

Sure, that is why Boutwell has started two years at DT, and Lincoln has always played inside. Lets just slot all players by weight, nothing else seemed to matter.

Something tells me that no matter what, you will look for the turd in the punch bowl.

So 3 JUCOs so far, that is not particularly heavy, but if we get 5 or 6 and not all of them are on this level of talent, I will start wondering whether MAC has changed philosophy, which would not be great news.

I don't think we are in a position where we can turn down JUCO all americans at any position (except maybe kicker) though,because we will always have a hard time getting that kind of talent in from HS. If this is the level of quality JUCOs we get I am ok with even 5 or 6 of them. I mean you have to prove you can play to become all american in JUCO and the speed is considerably quicker than in HS. So: good job recruiters!

That said the bulge in my football pants would be considerably bigger, if we could get a pass rushing JUCO all american or one at a skill position in offense

Edited December 19, 2012 by outoftown

Look the ESPN top 100 Juco list and you will see hat everyone is signing juncos these days, even gasp Texas!

Something tells me that no matter what, you will look for the turd in the punch bowl.

You got it, that was a real negative post. Pointing out that a player might be better at dt than de because there are a lot of factors other than size involved is a real downer. I would have said if you don't like my posts; don't read them, but based on your comment I am not sure you do read them.

Quickness, ability to play in a crowd, fight through a double team, and strength are all factors that are necessary in a good interior lineman. Being 300 lb may help but obviously the ones playing are thought to be better than back up offensive lineman. If you will note Lincoln, Orr, Wallace, McDorman and Abbe are all scheduled to be around the 300 mark by next season. Boutwell is the only one that will probably weight in at a lot less than 300 at about 265, it looks like they have given up trying to put more weight on him.

I will guess here, and assume the negative in this thread you are referring to is my opinion that McCarney is going the juco route because he is not been very successful recruiting hs players. Your stated opinion is that he is just waited for his recruits to mature because they are all freshmen and sophomores. The facts are that his first class have been in the program 2 years and should be ready to contribute and if McCarney wanted to go juco it would have made far more sense to do it in his first two years, were he would not have had as big a deficiency in upper class men ready to play. His stated objective of around 5 jucos is a departure from his philosophy of the first two years and I don't see how anyone could see it any different.

It seems fairly obvious to me that McCarney and staff have signed very few hs players with other options and now he is going after a relatively large juco class. That is a conclusion based on my interpretation of the status of the program, but I guess that opinion should not be shared because you think it is too negative. Attack the messenger and never let logic get into your way that is what a good optimistic fan should do.

Notice anybody familiar on the Defensive Honorable Mention list?

http://www.njcaa.org/Teams/football/2012/2012%20Football%20All-Americans.pdf

Notice anybody familiar on the Defensive Honorable Mention list?

http://www.njcaa.org/Teams/football/2012/2012%20Football%20All-Americans.pdf

Terrell Brooks!!

Terrell Brooks!!

We could have really used him. Still don't quite understand why he left.

Sure, that is why Boutwell has started two years at DT, and Lincoln has always played inside. Lets just slot all players by weight, nothing else seemed to matter.

Both Boutwell and Lincoln were recruited and signed as defensive ends. Boutwell only weighed 225 when he signed and sat out a year to get up to 250 or so. Because he was the best defensive lineman we had he was moved to DT. He has finally gotten his weight up to 272 but he still gives away 20 to as much as 50 pounds to the guy blocking him. As a result he has had several injuries. He might have been one of our best strongside defensive ends but he took one for the team and played tackle. Lincoln at least weighed 255 when signed so he, too, was placed at tackle. He has some quickness and strength but even now he only weighs 266, not exactly what you need to face 300+ beasts on the other side. Abbe had the size, but little else, when converted from offensive line play in high school.

I hope and pray that Wallace and McDorman will give us improvement at defensive tackle. Both were defensive tackles in high school so at least they're used to playing inside. So was Micah Thompson. I hope that they form the core of defensive tackle with some help from Abbe and maybe Boutwell and Lincoln in certain situations.

Losing the starting C and an OT. Mac signs a JUCO OT and C. People throw fits. This isn't about Mac's recruiting classes. It's about those BEFORE that and the lack of relative depth. It's about experience and size along the lines. It's about competition.

Losing the starting C and an OT. Mac signs a JUCO OT and C. People throw fits. This isn't about Mac's recruiting classes. It's about those BEFORE that and the lack of relative depth. It's about experience and size along the lines. It's about competition.

I don't really think that anyone is throwing a fit...at least not by GMG.com standards (see Josh Brent thread)...but we're thin pretty much everywhere, and if we're going the JUCO route for immediate impact players in my opinion offensive play-makers and defensive lines are far more pressing a need.

I doubt anyone is upset at signing a JC All-American tackle. This thread has ballooned rather as a product at concerns elsewhere on the field.

I don't really think that anyone is throwing a fit...at least not by GMG.com standards (see Josh Brent thread)...but we're thin pretty much everywhere, and if we're going the JUCO route for immediate impact players in my opinion offensive play-makers and defensive lines are far more pressing a need.

I doubt anyone is upset at signing a JC All-American tackle. This thread has ballooned rather as a product at concerns elsewhere on the field.

Mac is working to replace some good starting players that are leaving. Since we're not a program with the roster depth that the big programs have that have been built through years of good recruiting, replacing these players in one of your most important units was DEFINITELY a pressing need. As I said, they're replacing two starters on that line. I don't want them to neglect one aspect of recruiting because they have pressing needs elsewhere. You get 25 scholarships, and it's not like Mac and Co. are unaware of their roster needs or aren't attempting to fill them. It's not like they aren't TRYING to get offensive play-makers and defensive linemen.

Furthermore, our biggest offensive playmakers are coming back (unlike those two offensive linemen). Also, unlike linemen, offensive playmakers can make more of an immediate impact as freshmen/RS freshmen. Linemen at our level need time to put on weight/strength (something Mac has been complaining about for 2 years).

I'm nervous about DL and offensive playmakers as well, but that has nothing to do with these JUCOs.

We could have really used him. Still don't quite understand why he left.

More of a head scratcher than Vizza. At least Gio might have been looking over his shoulder a bit.

Brooks...just baffles me.

I am guessing that Mac did not want to sign many jucos his first couple of years because they would be gone by years 3 and 4. He is now willing to add some so they can help be an impact in years 3 and 4, plus provide someone to fill a hole in the first couple of recruiting classes that are still not ready. I don't see it as a panic move at all, and is consistent with what he said he would do at the end of the season. Is signing a few, what appear to be quality, juco players really a negative?

If NT can sign juco difference makers, than great. I don't think you sign jucos for depth unless the roster is really depleted at certain positions. I do believe that NT has a returning team that is balanced by numbers, maybe not in talent.

The bottom line is that if NT can get good players that can play college ball, it doesn't matter if they are jucos, transfers from other programs or high school. Furthermore, I don't think position matters much; good solid players are needed everywhere on this team.

I have this theory. If you can get a player that is better than what you have, you have the scholarship available, you don't overload an area to the detriment of another and you don't totally screwup a developing player, then you take that player.

Mac is certainly making solid (so they appear) additions on the JUCO front. I also like the Louisville addition at Safety.

Let's hope that Pegram, Terrell, and Berglund also live up to their billing, and we could be in for big things next year.

But, it still appears that Mac is gambling on his high school talent. Probably because his hand is being forced by good players not wanting to come here. If his gambles turn out to be busts, then be ready for another influx of JUCO guys again next year, and every year, until we win enough to attract good high school talent. This is a fine line to walk, because, as we learned with Dodge, too many JUCO guys and not enough high school guys slowly kills the roster.

Mac is certainly making solid (so they appear) additions on the JUCO front. I also like the Louisville addition at Safety.

Let's hope that Pegram, Terrell, and Berglund also live up to their billing, and we could be in for big things next year.

But, it still appears that Mac is gambling on his high school talent. Probably because his hand is being forced by good players not wanting to come here. If his gambles turn out to be busts, then be ready for another influx of JUCO guys again next year, and every year, until we win enough to attract good high school talent. This is a fine line to walk, because, as we learned with Dodge, too many JUCO guys and not enough high school guys slowly kills the roster.

I think it's slightly different this time around. Dodge brought in JCs in his last class and added them to positions that were already junior and senior laden. For example, McCord, Ford, Downing and Graham were added to a secondary that already had Royce Hill, Ira Smith, John Shorter, DaWaylon Cook...and he didn't address those positions at all with freshmen.

Evans and Jones are being added to a secondary with 2 contributing '13 seniors, 1 junior and (hopefully with Warner) 4 sophomores...and Schilleci and I'd imagine one more HS DB or ATH being added to this class.

Brown address a direct need in replacing Obi...and hopefully he McCoy, Bellezin and Mason form a solid 4 man rotation at end and allow Horton and Dilonga to continue to develop...and again I'd assume at least 2 or 3 more ships will be dedicated to HS kids on the DL.

Manu and McKinney I think might be a bit more superfluous, but we've already addressed the future with Sorge, Walker and Nelson already on board...and with 2 RS-Fr already on the roster, so I'm not concerned with future depth.

I think the way it is shaping up, 2013 will be the deepest team we have had in a long, long time. Not saying the most talented team because they have to prove that on the field - but we should have depth. I can't wait for Spring.

Manu and McKinney I think might be a bit more superfluous, but we've already addressed the future with Sorge, Walker and Nelson already on board...and with 2 RS-Fr already on the roster, so I'm not concerned with future depth.

We actually redshirted three scholly lineman this year in Tackle Connor Trussell, Guard Ryan Rentfroe, and Center Boone Feldt. Not to mention walk-on Center Kaydon Kirby who I believe will start at center next year.

We definitely have depth on the line and these new guys won't hurt.

Also, one more point regarding the question of why we are bringing in another offensive tackle.

Please note that tackles must be taller, athletic players with long arms to fend off the pass rush, so you can't just stick any good lineman at tackle. You rarely see Division-1 tackles shorter than 6'4".

Manu's film shows that he has a strong upper body to go along with long, strong arms, although he could use some help in footwork and keeping his head out and prevent from lunging at the incoming pass rusher (things you can easily coach up). Good given long arms, strength, and not to mention the guy looks nasty on film, so I think he is a solid addition.

Right now we may only have 3 true scholarship tackles on our roster in 6'5" Junior Antonio Johnson (2-year returning starter), 6'4" Senior LaChris Anyiam (returning co-starter), and 6'5" RS Freshman Connor Trussell. I'm not sure about 6'5" tackle Grant Shaw since he wasn't on the spring weight-chart that we saw released before the semester ended, but there's a possibility that he may not be on the team anymore.

Also, heading into spring Justin Manu will fill out our two-deep at tackle with legitimate scholarship players. Then in the fall, once our 3 freshman offensive lineman arrive, we will be able to pick and choose which of them will be better suited for tackle and not have to rush any of them into action.

The good news is they are all listed at either 6'4" or 6'5" so they have the potential to be versatile and help out at different spots along the line.

Edited December 20, 2012 by BillySee58