***OFFICIAL UNT vs. UTSA IN-GAME DISCUSSION***

+ 1 Harry.

Classy post Harry. I want any and all coaches who lead our kids.to be successful.

The team we lost to lost to a team with whom we should be at the very least competitive by 61 points. That's not just a case of having a bad shooting night.

I can't get behind a coach who's defense gave up 78 points to a D2 team while being outrebounded in a loss, and on the next night that team scores 26 points, losing by 61, getting out rebounded by 32 boards.

The deal is, we were in the preseason NIT at what was supposed to be the perfect timing for this program. Supposedly one of the most talented teams ever at UNT playing in a national tournament at just the right time, with a great draw and a chance to actually make it to NY.

All that was wasted in what has to be the most disappointing loss in UNT history in any sport.

Harry, I understand where you are coming from, but the problem is Coach Benford promised us better defense, rebounding, on the ball defense, and transition basketball. Every one of those areas has been worse. Can this team recover and become stronger in those areas than in previous years? Maybe. Will it recover by the Lehigh and St. Louis game? Highly, highly doubtful.

So, we are basically left with the same old crap, which is hoping to win the conference tournament in order to get a play in game to the big dance.

This team was supposed to be better than that. Many basketball experts predicted as much. It is, well, at this point, was Coach Benford's job to get us there. He has failed miserably up to this point.

To see a team many of us (and basketball "experts") thought was capable of a national ranking lose to a D2 school, and then watch that same D2 school lose to K St. BY 60 FREAKING POINTS is probably the worse thing that has happened around here in 10 plus years.

Yes, worse than the Dodge era.

Worse than black jersey gate.

Worse than the Tulsa loss at home.

So much was expected of this team, not only by it's fan base,, but by many in the basketball press. Those expectations have been obliterated, and that is not only disappointing, but it hurts the program. No more national press. Hell, no more mention on local sports radio. Yet another chance for disconnected alumni to remain that way.

After 2 games under Benford.

Can things get better this year? Yes.

Will they ever come within 100 miles of what they could have been? No.

Rant over.

Edited November 14, 2012 by UNT90

The team we lost to lost to a team with whom we should be at the very least competitive by 61 points. That's not just a case of having a bad shooting night.

Apple and oranges!

Ok, but....... K-State beat, Lamar 79-55, we beat them 74-59.

I am not excusing the lost to the D2 team, by any stretch.

Apple and oranges!

Ok, but....... K-State beat, Lamar 79-55, we beat them 74-59.

I am not excusing the lost to the D2 team, by any stretch.

KState's game with Lamar was well over before halftime (they led at the break 43-15, we led by 6 at half).

KState's game with Lamar was well over before halftime (they led at the break 43-15, we led by 6 at half).

That explains it! I looking forward to see how the team responds at home.

The deal is, we were in the preseason NIT at what was supposed to be the perfect timing for this program. Supposedly one of the most talented teams ever at UNT playing in a national tournament at just the right time, with a great draw and a chance to actually make it to NY.

All that was wasted in what has to be the most disappointing loss in UNT history in any sport.

Harry, I understand where you are coming from, but the problem is Coach Benford promised us better defense, rebounding, on the ball defense, and transition basketball. Every one of those areas has been worse. Can this team recoverand become stronger in those areas than in previous years? Maybe. Will it recover by the Lehigh and St. Louis game? Highly, highly doubtful.

Sonwe are basically left with the same old crap, which is hoping to win the conference tournament I'm order to get a play in game to the big dance.

This team was supposed to be better than that. Many basketball experts predicted as much. It is, well, at this point, was Coach Benford's job to get us there. He has failed miserably up to this point.

To see a team many of us (and basketball "experts") thought was capable of a national ranking lose to a D2 school, and then watch that same D2 school lose to K St. BY 60 FREAKING POINTS is probably the worse thing that has happened around here in 10 plus years.

Yes, worse than the Diodge era.

Worse than black jersey gate.

Worse than the Tulsa loss at home.

So much was expected of this team, not only by it's fan base,, but by many in the basketball press. Those expectations have been obliterated, and that is not only disappointing, but it hurts the program. No more national press. Hell, no more mention on local sports radio. Yet another chance for disconnected alumni to remain that way.

After 2 games under Benford.

Can things get better this year? Yes.

Will they ever come within 100 miles of what they could be? No.

Rant over.

I'd +1 the heck out of this, but I'm not sure this is worse than the Dodge era, or the Tulsa home loss, or any other setback that always seem to pop up and keep UNT firmly planted in the back pages of the sports section and off local talk radio. Most of DFW has no idea this loss occurred. It wasn't on TV and certainly wasn't picked up by many media outlets-even after it turned out to be a historic win for UAH.

The biggest thing to come out of this loss is that we're going to have to pretty much run the tables through the rest of our OOC schedule to have any hope of anything better than a 15 seed in the tournament---should we get our crap completely together and actually make the tournament.

I really want to see this team in person before jumping to any further rash conclusions---but I expected Marquette and Nebraska level defensive pressure from Benford. So far, we're not anywhere close to that....and look to be worse on D than we were under JJ (whose defenses were streaky, at best). My biggest question, to those who know Benford better, is what system exactly is he trying to implement here? We've heard a lot of buzz words, but haven't seen it on the court....yet.

Not me. Not yet.

Good post Harry. It amazes me that some on here have already called for Benford's head...and also RV's (who has no role in the outcome of a basketball game at all) on a silver platter after 2 losses. unbelievable.

As we're near constantly reminded, Tony Mitchell first committed to Missouri, otherwise known as the show me state.

Right now, in regards to this basketball squad and this coaching staff and this season, you can consider me the show me fan.

Good post Harry. It amazes me that some on here have already called for Benford's head...and also RV's (who has no role in the outcome of a basketball game at all) on a silver platter after 2 losses. unbelievable.

While I do not think we should call for his head, I do think starting the most hyped team of the decade of to a sason with the most embarassing loss of the decade (and it would have been that for any of the last 10 squads) should earn you to be put on immediate notice. If things pick up, well then this is just one embarassing loss... but if it turns out, that our so far small sample even halfway adequately prdeicts what will happen during the season; if this is just another up and down season: then he does not deserve a second season. NT has given too many coaches that were obvious not to get a turnaround done to much time. And if we say NT, then the man in charge of those decisions was RV. So if he takes flack for those I think this is deserved (although there are also some real important successes for the Program by RV

also @ Harry while I get that lastly we should also hold the players responsible, the coach s responsible to advance their development and the AD is responsible to pick the right man to advance it... UAH showed that the offseason was not very succesful at furthering that development in some key areas.

Last point, Tony Benford and Coach Robb Evans didn't shoot 22% against UAH, the players did. At what point do they take some accountability for the loss? If they had made just a few more shots we could have easily won that game and this travesty would have never happened.

Let me first say that I was disgusted with the loss. Swore off the Mean Green for the season but then retracted after I woke the next day.

I noted this too Harry after the losses. We missed so many open jump shots, including short-, mid- and 3-point range, free throws in clutch periods, and "runners." This is not a coaching issue (though we do have other coaching issues). This is a player issue. If they need to be coached on how to make an open shot at this level, than they should not be playing at all. Sure, coaches can help refine and improve shot form, etc... but give me a break, you can't win with any game plan if you can't make open shots. My belief is that all the hype got into the players' heads... and not in the way that others have said (i.e., that he players believe the hype, are arrogant, etc.)... but rather in a way that our players played stressed, forceful and un-fluid in an effort to meet these high expectations. I think we started to see the players settle down last night against Lamar with much improved play and shots - hopefully this continues.

Good post Harry. It amazes me that some on here have already called for Benford's head...and also RV's (who has no role in the outcome of a basketball game at all) on a silver platter after 2 losses. unbelievable.

I think everyone knows those are just emotional reactions to a terrible loss.

You obviously don't fire a coach after his 2nd game, but there are huge concerns about this thing going forward.

I think everyone knows those are just emotional reactions to a terrible loss.

You obviously don't fire a coach after his 2nd game, but there are huge concerns about this thing going forward.

On this we agree 100%. I honestly felt the urge to fall down to my knees after that loss...part of it was I couldn't get the KNTU feed and had to listen to their homer announcer... that loss hurt I mean bad, like Dickey-era Tulsa bendover bad and Mac opener egg laying against FIU in a rainstorm bad...it actually reminded me of how I felt when we lost to K-State when they hadn't won a game in like 100 years..

Let me first say that I was disgusted with the loss. Swore off the Mean Green for the season but then retracted after I woke the next day.

I noted this too Harry after the losses. We missed so many open jump shots, including short-, mid- and 3-point range, free throws in clutch periods, and "runners." This is not a coaching issue (though we do have other coaching issues). This is a player issue. If they need to be coached on how to make an open shot at this level, than they should not be playing at all. Sure, coaches can help refine and improve shot form, etc... but give me a break, you can't win with any game plan if you can't make open shots. My belief is that all the hype got into the players' heads... and not in the way that others have said (i.e., that he players believe the hype, are arrogant, etc.)... but rather in a way that our players played stressed, forceful and un-fluid in an effort to meet these high expectations. I think we started to see the players settle down last night against Lamar with much improved play and shots - hopefully this continues.

The problem with that game was we gave up 78 points to this team while being outrebounded by 5. They could only muster 26 against KState and were outrebounded by 32. Were we too nervous to move our feet on defense and close out on shooters and block out and grab rebounds? Nerves can affect shooting, but not defense and rebounding. That comes down to coaching and intensity.

Certainly not time to even think about changing coaches but two enormous loses; one to a good maybe great team, but we were not competitive, and one to a team that NT should have beat by at least 20 on a neutral court.

Now what promised to be NT's best ever season, has NT fans wondering if NT will even be a break even team in the Belt.

The talent is there but the team is at this point very bad based on were they should be. Benford is a rookie coach and seems to be making a lot of mistakes. He kept the team together, but they have to play that way. Mitchell was supposed to be very improved with all the camps and a full year of practice, yet he looks like the same player if not worse. Were is the inside game, the guy that could led the nation in rebounding? Coleman who was supposed to be center NT needed, has played relative little.

Injuries are bad but this was supposed to be a deep team. However, I have no idea why Benford is substituting so much especially this early.

Excuses don't cut it with this team. This coaching team was not hired to rebuild. Chances are they will never have the raw talent they have now, if they can't win with this group then the future is dim.

Getting Patton and Walton back will help greatly, and the team obviously will get better. The question though is how much better and when. Hopefully the worst is over and these opening games will be forgotten.

Im going on the record that i think Benford is our guy. The best days are ahead this season!

Im going on the record that i think Benford is our guy. The best days are ahead this season!

That second sentence isn't a very bold statement. We are almost certain not to lose to another DII team this season.

I have serious reservations that Benford is our guy. He talks a good game but he hasn't shown the ability to coach one. I preferred Fran to him, but I was behind him 100% until this debacle of a start. I'm still there but more along the lines of soviet political officer behind him rather than supporting him.

and also RV's (who has no role in the outcome of a basketball game at all)

Yes, he does. He hired the coach. He hired Dodge. His record with coaching hires is beyond sketchy.

This was a team that was supposed to be loaded with talent and a possible top 25 level team. RV chose the person to coach that talent. IF that choice ends up being the wrong choice, it will absolutely affect the outcome of not one, but many basketball games. Stop kidding yourself.

It is way too early to call for anyone's head, but to absolve RV of any role in this thing if it completely implodes is just foolish.

Edited November 14, 2012 by UNT90

If there was one season to break the bank and find an experienced head coach with a proven track record, this was it. Don't know if anybody knows this, but Tony Mitchell will be gone next year. And potential lottery picks aren't busting down our doors. If at the end of the season, we decide it was too much money to spend, then get rid of him, but go all in this season.

Benford is coaching like a hockey coach with a poor team looking for identity. Shuffle up the lines until something sticks and if nothing sticks, keep shuffling.

Hard to find a flow for the game, and chemistry with your teammates when everybody takes 2 minute shifts in basketball.

This was not the season to hire a rookie coach who is learning on the job.

Most of DFW has no idea this loss occurred.

Isn't that the point though? Yeah most people didn't know it happened. But it should never have happened! What we thought would happen was perhaps we would upset K State and make in to NYC. And then everyone in DFW would know about that!!!!

Not only is this loss embarrassing, but as previously states this has ruined our chances at an at large bid. We will be lucky if we get a 15 seed assuming we even make it.

I'm with you 100% on this Harry. Everyone is completely overreacting to this loss as if we just lost an internationally televised game that decides which school's students gets free tuition for a year against the Southwestern Oklahoma School for the Blind and Deaf.

This loss cost us an opportunity to play KState on national television. That's all it did. It didn't cost us an at large, it didn't cost us our conference season, it didn't cost us our lottery pick, it didn't cost us anything other than that opportunity. Does it hurt? Is it an absolutely humiliating loss? Should Benford be ashamed of himself and his team? Should the players be ashamed? Hell to the yes for all of those. Do we all need to take a step back and realize a few things, like that there are 28 games left, games against Lehigh, St Louis, and Virginia left? That this game doesn't affect our RPI directly? That this is still a team with a lot of pieces who haven't had game-time to get into the flow of things with each other, a team with a new coach and new system? Yes. Yes we do.

Relax everyone. It would have been time to hit the panic button had we lost to Lamar and then Cameron. We're 1-1 in games we should win, and 0-1 against better teams. Doesn't seem too bad when you look at it that way, does it? UAH is a name, but it goes on the record as just an L. 99% of the world doesn't even know the game happened. Chiillllll oouuutttttt...

Last note: Stop the comparisons of KState dismantling UAH to our loss to them. COMPLETELY unrelated. In one case, you have UAH playing the game of their lives, shooting the lights out better than they probably ever have before, putting 150% energy into this game since it's been touted as the biggest game of their lives, etc. And you have UNT coming off of a 20 point loss to a top 15 team to play a D2 school, looking ahead to the matchup with KState, lost a couple key guys to injury, TERRIBLE shooting night on top of that, etc etc etc. Result? UAH barely escapes with a win. Next game, UAH is completely exhausted, lacks the motivation they had since they did what they set out to do already, and has the worst shooting night of their careers against a damn good team that is a lot better than the team they played the night before. What the frig did you expect UAH to do to KState? Of course they were going to get demolished.

Just take a deep breath, come see UNT beat the shit out of Cameron on Friday, and move on with your lives. Before long, we'll be beating UTA by 20 and then steamrolling through conference play like we expected.