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Wright Waters on Alliance

January will be big...

Quote:"I think there's a huge moment in time coming up in January, when we see what they'll do in the BCS with the Mountain West request (for an automatic BCS berth)," Waters said. "I think if they get that, I think the (Conference USA-Mountain West) merger is probably off.

"If they don't get that, I think you'll see the merger between Conference USA and Mountain West, and that will reduce the number of conferences from 11 to 10. I think it'll be very difficult for the WAC and that could reduce the number to 9. It might also make it difficult for the Big East to remain a football league and that could drop it to 8.

"So when you're one of eight instead of one of 11, all of a sudden, you have a different profile and all the sustainability and stability that goes with it. So, I think this January is big."

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I disagree with the commissioner that we are moving to an eight conference universe. I believe we are moving to a nine or ten conference universe.

As I've stated on NCAABBS Sun Belt board, the middle class is disappearing in college football. Look at how the MWC, CUSA, and WAC raids have gone. The elite programs that made up the middle class are mostly gone. Those who remain are left in conferences with lower budget, lower supported schools than exisited in 2004 or even in 2010.

The people who did best in the Great Depression or our current great recession are those who had cash on hand and little debt. The AD at FAU was quoted after ASU hired Malzahn as saying Sun Belt schools have been smart in the coaching hires because the contracts offered have been consistent with what we can make in ticket sales. Look at Memphis. They hired a TCU coordinator for $100,000 to $250,000 a year more than ASU is paying Malzahn, drew fewer fans than ASU last year and they are slashing all season ticket packages $50 to $150.

The "rich" TV deal CUSA signed with Fox? Works out to $580,000 per school and was signed when Orlando, Dallas, and the better supported school in Houston were in the league.

The chasing of TV dollars is like what is happening in boardrooms of failing companies. Slash your core business and dump it to cling to the one steady revenue stream that in the long run won't exist without the core business. Go research the budgets of FBS schools. Whether its Texas or Texas Tech league revenue (which is only partially TV, it also includes NCAA, bowl, league championships, and sponsorships) is generally a third or less of operating income. The core revenue stream in college is ticket sales, donations, and sponsorships.

The new Big East and the Alliance are chasing TV dollars and BCS dollars mostly at the expense of playing regionally relevant schools. The problem UNT and Arkansas State share is that we lack a really close school that we can have a rivalry with that helps fuel donations and tickets. Swapping the Sun Belt label for the CUSA label doesn't resolve any of our problems if CUSA doesn't have those regionally relevant opponents.

They are ignoring their core business. I tend to believe that if you take care of selling tickets, soliciting donations and sponsorships that the TV part of the picture will take care of itself. You should never make a move solely because of TV. The intelligent conference asks first, "Does this school fit with us in their goals, aspirations, focus, and profile?". The second question should be, "Does adding this institution help anyone in the league sell more tickets and to develop a rivalry?". Look at TAMU. Back in the 80's LSU and TAMU had a short-run series that was extremely popular and Arkansas has a long history with them. Mizzou and Arkansas are a perfect fit though not as currently hobbled up in their division structure. You focus on growing the 70% of your business, not the 30%, especially if growing the 30% is at the cost of the 70%.

Rick Pitino has already said he will not comply with a Big East mandate to schedule the football only schools for a total of four games a year for each football only because Boise and San Diego are too far for the program to deal with.

How is San Diego State going to help SMU or Rutgers sell more tickets and generate more fan interest? How is a championship game against Nevada and the occasional cross-over basketball game against them going to help East Carolina sell more tickets and spur interest in their corner of North Carolina?

Commissioner Waters thinks the Big East will collapse and the fallout will trickle into the Alliance and some into the Sun Belt.

I disagree.

I think the Big XII will take Louisville and someone else, probably South Florida but maybe Cincinnati or Rutgers. Memphis would be a very long shot.

When that happens I have my doubts that the basketball schools will agree to add any more full members. If the ACC were to come back in and take two more, I'd wager heavily they will not agree to take any more football schools to get back to eight full football members.

The likely outcome in my opinion is that what is left of the Big East other than Boise State and San Diego State may finally see the light and approach the best CUSA programs and maybe Temple, maybe UMass, maybe a Sun Belt school or two and form a new conference that leaves UTEP, Tulane, Rice, UAB, maybe Tulsa out of the mix.

The western schools will take UTEP, Boise State, San Diego State, and maybe USU and San Jose, maybe NMSU (not likely thanks to UTEP and New Mexico) and do their own thing.

The Sun Belt will pick up Rice, UAB, Tulane and if available Tulsa. Might take La.Tech or UTSA or TexSt. and we will have the five wealthy leagues. We will have a new eastern/southeastern league to replace CUSA/Big East and a MWC sort of conference and there will be some schools left in the cold like NMSU and Idaho.


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Harry

Posted

I think there's a LOT of validity in what WW is saying here...

shaft

Posted

As much as I want to see it happen I don't see how the WAC folds.

The Mountain West would have to have its BCS bid denied. The MWC-CUSA merger would have to go forward.

The MWC would have to take a team from the WAC (Utah State or San Jose State) and the Sun Belt would have to take two teams (LA Tech and New Mexico State or UTSA).

GTWT

Posted (edited)

I'll stay in the Sun Belt if we can get LA Tech, NMSU, and/or UTSA.

Adding Texas/New Mexico/Louisiana schools is just part of the solution. The SBC needs to jetison the bottom tier of the current league (e.g., MT, Troy, Monroe) to be attractive. That ain't gonna happen.

Edited by GTWT
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VideoEagle

Posted

I hope everyone reads Arkstfan's analysis in the thread listed above. It's interesting, very well reasoned and a bit scary from our viewpoint.

Mean Green Matt

Posted (edited)

Do the Lafayette fans realize they played a bowl game @ home basically? That level of attendance is expected, not extraordinary.

Edited by Mean Green Matt
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Green Mean

Posted

Personally I don't mind the belt and have come to appreciate it but we have to be opportunistic at the same time and there is a better home to be had if it becomes available.

untbowler

Posted

Adding Texas/New Mexico/Louisiana schools is just part of the solution. The SBC needs to jetison the bottom tier of the current league (e.g., MT, Troy, Monroe) to be attractive. That ain't gonna happen.

Really after the last 7 years you want to kick Troy, ULM, and MTSU??

MTSU has a slightly better overall athletic program, they were down this year, ULM ok I think they should drop back to Southland. Troy has kicked our ass for the past 6 of 7 years again they were down this year. We would be included in the bottom tier.

We need to win in the Belt consistently and not just in football.

VideoEagle

Posted

Do the Lafayette fans realize they played a bowl game @ home basically? That level of attendance is expected, not extraordinary.

Not true. Lafayette is 135 miles from New Orleans. That's further from Denton to Waco - would you say NT playing in Waco was a home game?

Hattiesburg is just 111 and Southern Miss didn't bring that many fans when they were in the NOB. La Tech is much closer to Shreveport and in past Indy bowls they have not brought that many fans.

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rcade

Posted

I love the indignant attitude on this board towards the SBC. Half our fans probably missed prom because they were convinced until the very end that the hot girl was gonna come around.

Amen, brother.

UNT fans need to embrace the Sun Belt while we're in the conference, because there's no guarantee we'll ever get an invite to a bigger one. Though the Belt is currently the lowest or second lowest conference in the FBS (depending on what you think of the WAC), it has steadily improved over the past five years and could catch the MAC, CUSA and MWC in the future. The southeast is the most fertile ground for college football in the U.S.

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Side Show Joe

Posted

If no C-USA/MWC invitation is extended to us, the Sun Belt will be better off by not expanding. The conference is rapidly improving. We don't need any FCS programs, or LA Tech. I feel bad for NMSU, but at this time I don't think it's in the Sun Belt's interest to expand the footprint of the conference further west.

The Sun Belt is already better then the new WAC, and moving ahead of the MAC. After the AQs finish raiding, if the Belt is not raided by the C-USA or the MWC, both conferences will be weaker, and the Sun Belt will be in position to become a top non AQ conference. And, under this situiation, if the AQ status goes away, then the Belt will be on a fairly even level with C-USA and the MWC. Just my opinion.

rcade

Posted

Not true. Lafayette is 135 miles from New Orleans. That's further from Denton to Waco - would you say NT playing in Waco was a home game?

For a bowl, playing less than two hours' drive within your own state is definitely a home game.

rcade

Posted

The conference is rapidly improving. We don't need any FCS programs, or LA Tech.

The Belt would be crazy not to take back Louisiana Tech.

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Mean Green Matt

Posted

Not true. Lafayette is 135 miles from New Orleans. That's further from Denton to Waco - would you say NT playing in Waco was a home game?

Hattiesburg is just 111 and Southern Miss didn't bring that many fans when they were in the NOB. La Tech is much closer to Shreveport and in past Indy bowls they have not brought that many fans.

Yes, if we played a bowl game in Waco I would consider it a home game. Without a doubt. They also have a huge alumni base in New Orleans.

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Side Show Joe

Posted

The Belt would be crazy not to take back Louisiana Tech.

The Belt will look like fools if we invited LA Tech and they refused again. We don't need them. Ruston is a terrible market, LA Tech has bad support for a bowl team, and I can't see them affording the costs of playing competitive FBS football in the years to come, with a $15 million budget.

We don't need more teams.

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UNTflyer

Posted

As much as I want to see it happen I don't see how the WAC folds.

We invite LA Tech and one other (NOT UTSA or Swtsu-sm)

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Daddy Dumpsalot

Posted (edited)

I love the indignant attitude on this board towards the SBC. Half our fans probably missed prom because they were convinced until the very end that the hot girl was gonna come around.

To further your analogy....adding UTSA to an already weak and disrespected SBC is like realizing that all the pretty girls are already being taken to prom so you ask the fat ugly girl the night before just so you can say you have a date.

No thanks, I'd rather go stag.

Edited by Daddy Dumpsalot
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NM Green

Posted

Just wait until FIU wins another bowl game and now you have some good name recognition in our league. College football fans know:

Troy

North Texas

FIU - coming on strong with Cristobal

Louisiana Lafayette - coming on

Arkansas State

Middle Tennessee

Who would of thought LaLa would raise the New Orleans Bowl bar to new heights.

Let's Go Belt! Keep it going!!!!!

GMG

  • Upvote 1
MeanGreenTexan

Posted

Just wait until FIU wins another bowl game and now you have some good name recognition in our league. College football fans know:

Troy

North Texas

FIU - coming on strong with Cristobal

Louisiana Lafayette - coming on

Arkansas State

Middle Tennessee

Who would of thought LaLa would raise the New Orleans Bowl bar to new heights.

Let's Go Belt! Keep it going!!!!!

GMG

Totally agree... for now.

If CUSA/MWC came calling, then by all means: Let's Go CUSA/MWC! Keep it going!!!!!

dang it! I got sucked into a conference realignment thread... I think I'm delerious from too much Tony Mitchell

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Green Mean

Posted

To further your analogy....adding UTSA to an already weak and disrespected SBC is like realizing that all the pretty girls are already being taken to prom so you ask the fat ugly girl the night before just so you can say you have a date.

No thanks, I'd rather go stag.

I don't know the fat ugly girl could just lose some weight and get a makeover. If not you can always score big after the prom and just close your eyes shut and go at it. After all they need lovin too.

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rcade

Posted

To further your analogy....adding UTSA to an already weak and disrespected SBC is like realizing that all the pretty girls are already being taken to prom so you ask the fat ugly girl the night before just so you can say you have a date.

No thanks, I'd rather go stag.

UTSA is another USF in the making. In five years, the Sun Belt will be kicking itself for not inviting them.

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rcade

Posted

The Belt will look like fools if we invited LA Tech and they refused again.

True, but I didn't say we should invite them. If LA Tech comes hat in hand to the Sun Belt after the WAC implodes further, the conference ought to take them back. It would benefit UNT and the Louisiana schools in the conference especially.

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