Overlander.

He can't defend any of the five positions at the D1 level. If he can't hit wide open threes then there's no reason for him to be on the court.

Has anyone on the team proven any of the above yet this season? Shifting the focus of our struggles this year to a true freshman that probably expected to play very little or redshirt is B.S. There are currently much bigger problems with this team than Clark Overlander, who will probably develop into a very nice player for us over the next couple of years. What was Doug McDermott like his freshman year?

Edited November 17, 2012 by UNTLifer

Has anyone on the team proven any of the above yet this season? Shifting the focus of our struggles this year to a true freshman that probably expected to play very little or redshirt is B.S. There are currently much bigger problems with this team than Clark Overlander, who will probably develop into a very nice player for us over the next couple of years. What was Doug McDermott like his freshman year?

You COMPLETELY missed the point. I have seen nobody suggesting that Overlander is responsible for this team's failures. What I have seen is people questioning whether a guy who is unable to defend at this level, unable to get to the hole at this level, and is essentially here to be a spot up shooting threat to open up the inside should be allowed to keep playing if he's failing to do the one thing he is capable of. Bringing up the defensive woes or shooting woes of the team overall is sidestepping the entire argument. Could Tony score more or defend better? Sure. But he DOES score and he DOES defend. Could Jordan, or CJ, or Roger, or any of the others play better? Sure. But they bring SOMETHING to the table. Overlander has ONE job right now...and it aint gettin done. It's not personal. Coleman was brought on board to rebound and defend. If he shows an utter inability to do either then guess what? He too becomes a liability. How is this hard to follow?

You COMPLETELY missed the point. I have seen nobody suggesting that Overlander is responsible for this team's failures. What I have seen is people questioning whether a guy who is unable to defend at this level, unable to get to the hole at this level, and is essentially here to be a spot up shooting threat to open up the inside should be allowed to keep playing if he's failing to do the one thing he is capable of. Bringing up the defensive woes or shooting woes of the team overall is sidestepping the entire argument. Could Tony score more or defend better? Sure. But he DOES score and he DOES defend. Could Jordan, or CJ, or Roger, or any of the others play better? Sure. But they bring SOMETHING to the table. Overlander has ONE job right now...and it aint gettin done. It's not personal. Coleman was brought on board to rebound and defend. If he shows an utter inability to do either then guess what? He too becomes a liability. How is this hard to follow?

Bingo. I read this thread as an affront to Benford and his idiocy rather than Clarke. Its not Clarke's fault Benford is trying to ruin him!

Clarke Overlander will find his shot and will be just fine. Shots will fall. Book it!

Gibbz, What is your background? Are you a former High School star, who did not receive a scholarship or a middle-aged failed rec-league player?

I agree, but to say his ride should be taken away is crazy talk.

It has already happened once under the current coach. So I'm not so sure it's all that crazy.

Edited November 18, 2012 by filmerj

You COMPLETELY missed the point. I have seen nobody suggesting that Overlander is responsible for this team's failures. What I have seen is people questioning whether a guy who is unable to defend at this level, unable to get to the hole at this level, and is essentially here to be a spot up shooting threat to open up the inside should be allowed to keep playing if he's failing to do the one thing he is capable of. Bringing up the defensive woes or shooting woes of the team overall is sidestepping the entire argument. Could Tony score more or defend better? Sure. But he DOES score and he DOES defend. Could Jordan, or CJ, or Roger, or any of the others play better? Sure. But they bring SOMETHING to the table. Overlander has ONE job right now...and it aint gettin done. It's not personal. Coleman was brought on board to rebound and defend. If he shows an utter inability to do either then guess what? He too becomes a liability. How is this hard to follow?

I was responding to Gibbz post, not the entire thread. I guess you entirely missed that even though I quoted his post. Carry on.

I think he finds his shot soon. He's a true freshman who's been been asked to do a lot while being thrown to the wolves. Once he settles down and gain some confidence than he may be a secret weapon.

Clarke Overlander will find his shot and will be just fine. Shots will fall. Book it!

Agree. Give the boy some time.

I cannot believe the level of basketball IQ in this forum. Saying a kid should transfer, quit, lose his scholarship for being in a shooting slump?! Idiots. Jordan williams is 8-20 from 3 this this year and 18-48 from the field. I wouldnt call that shooting a high percentage. Even you basketball "experts" can figure that out. Our All-American isnt even averaging a double double this year, that would be deemed under achieving as well in my mind. But instead, you pick on a freshman who hasnt even played 5 college games yet, who is playing big minutes and taking shots that the team needs him to take and he will eventually make. The kid is in a slump, Brandon had a similar slump last year and nobody on this team is shooting well from deep this year. So point your finger at the freshman? This isnt right. If you will watch film and see his stats from high school, AAU and this year, you geniuses should also be able to figure out that he is the opposite of a defensive liability. Just becasue he isnt flying above the rim swatting shots out of bounds like Tony, doesnt make him a bad defender. Sure he isnt the athlete that maybe you all want to see, but he is one of the smartest kids on the floor and 9/10 in the right position to make a play. His form, his game and the kid himself are too good to struggle much longer and I can't wait to see you all jump on the bandwagon once it starts rolling. Do your homework before you post, u idiots.

I cannot believe the level of basketball IQ in this forum. Saying a kid should transfer, quit, lose his scholarship for being in a shooting slump?! Idiots. Jordan williams is 8-20 from 3 this this year and 18-48 from the field. I wouldnt call that shooting a high percentage. Even you basketball "experts" can figure that out. Our All-American isnt even averaging a double double this year, that would be deemed under achieving as well in my mind. But instead, you pick on a freshman who hasnt even played 5 college games yet, who is playing big minutes and taking shots that the team needs him to take and he will eventually make. The kid is in a slump, Brandon had a similar slump last year and nobody on this team is shooting well from deep this year. So point your finger at the freshman? This isnt right. If you will watch film and see his stats from high school, AAU and this year, you geniuses should also be able to figure out that he is the opposite of a defensive liability. Just becasue he isnt flying above the rim swatting shots out of bounds like Tony, doesnt make him a bad defender. Sure he isnt the athlete that maybe you all want to see, but he is one of the smartest kids on the floor and 9/10 in the right position to make a play. His form, his game and the kid himself are too good to struggle much longer and I can't wait to see you all jump on the bandwagon once it starts rolling. Do your homework before you post, u idiots.

did you watch the game?

question... no info - other than his stat line of 2 fouls and 1 steal in 16 minutes against a school from the Lawton area.

this is just a simple case of a kid that needed a redshirt. have fun with your sports.

I cannot believe the level of basketball IQ in this forum. Saying a kid should transfer, quit, lose his scholarship for being in a shooting slump?! Idiots. Jordan williams is 8-20 from 3 this this year and 18-48 from the field. I wouldnt call that shooting a high percentage. Even you basketball "experts" can figure that out. Our All-American isnt even averaging a double double this year, that would be deemed under achieving as well in my mind. But instead, you pick on a freshman who hasnt even played 5 college games yet, who is playing big minutes and taking shots that the team needs him to take and he will eventually make. The kid is in a slump, Brandon had a similar slump last year and nobody on this team is shooting well from deep this year. So point your finger at the freshman? This isnt right. If you will watch film and see his stats from high school, AAU and this year, you geniuses should also be able to figure out that he is the opposite of a defensive liability. Just becasue he isnt flying above the rim swatting shots out of bounds like Tony, doesnt make him a bad defender. Sure he isnt the athlete that maybe you all want to see, but he is one of the smartest kids on the floor and 9/10 in the right position to make a play. His form, his game and the kid himself are too good to struggle much longer and I can't wait to see you all jump on the bandwagon once it starts rolling. Do your homework before you post, u idiots.

Hey buddy we are not talking about the past are we? We are talking about the future. We need a shooter and he is our only option. I have never seen anyone on this bored wishing one of our guys to fail. I would love for him to start knocking down shots. All that has been said is if he doesn't step it up what might happen next year.

Let me ask this question to Yall who want to defend a freshman. If his slump continues as a redshirt soph or a junior will people be able to say things then?

Another question for white basketball fans. Why do white kids get high basketball IQs?

Yes I watched the game. I said slumping, he did not shoot well, where was the "defensive liability?" IQ has nothing to do with a white kid or any other kid. Its how they play and have played. Pulling the race card is another reason this forum is just full of the right kind of fans. You can absolutley say something if the whole season goes this way, but to be on a kid this early isnt right.

Another question for white basketball fans. Why do white kids get high basketball IQs?

Information penetrates the lighter skin more easily?

Information penetrates the lighter skin more easily?

Lol then my daughter is going to be a basketball genius.

Anyone gona call when he breaks out?

I cannot believe the level of basketball IQ in this forum. Saying a kid should transfer, quit, lose his scholarship for being in a shooting slump?! Idiots. Jordan williams is 8-20 from 3 this this year and 18-48 from the field. I wouldnt call that shooting a high percentage.

First of all, relax. Stop calling people idiots and use your words to construct an argument that actually makes sense...

...and is based on actual, real statistics. Jordan Williams has not shot 8-20 from 3. (That would be 40% ... which would be, ya know, good ... ) He has shot 4-20. (20% ... bad ... but obviously not as bad as Clarke's 6.25%) Oddly enough, if you had used the actual statistic it would have better supported your argument, as weak as it is.

nobody on this team is shooting well from deep this year.

(prior to today)

Tony: 6-11, 54.5%

Jacob: 3-4, 75%

Yes, those are small sample sizes, but I'm just pointing out that you seem to be angrily pulling things out of nowhere while spouting "idiots" more than once. Makes you look hypocritical IMHO. Sorry.

If you will watch film and see his stats from high school, AAU and this year, you geniuses should also be able to figure out that he is the opposite of a defensive liability.

These comparisons simply don't make sense. AAU =/= NCAA D1 ball. 3A High School CERTAINLY =/= NCAA D1 ball.

More importantly, Benford publicly said in an interview (essentially) that Clarke is a defensive liability. He said something along the lines of "[Clarke] needs to learn to guard somebody." There is video footage of that. In your own words "do your homework before posting."

So point your finger at the freshman? This isnt right.

I could be wrong, but I don't believe anyone has blamed our perceived underachieving thus far on Clarke. That would be ridiculous. We've had other, bigger issues, clearly. We are (or SHOULD be) questioning whether he is ready to fill the role that it would be very beneficial for him to fill this season -- right now -- given the injury to Walton, TJ's ineligibility, the fact Alzee is not a deep threat, etc. etc. Yes, obviously calling for him to transfer, quit, or have his scholarship pulled is incredibly extreme at this point. I'm with you there.

Do your homework before you post, u idiots..

Eagerly awaiting your response,

An Idiot With A Low Basketball IQ

Edited November 19, 2012 by MeanGreenMusic

Keep waiting dummy idiot

Keep waiting dummy idiot

Awww maaannnn....!!!1

I cannot believe the level of basketball IQ in this forum. Saying a kid should transfer, quit, lose his scholarship for being in a shooting slump?! Idiots. Jordan williams is 8-20 from 3 this this year and 18-48 from the field. I wouldnt call that shooting a high percentage. Even you basketball "experts" can figure that out. Our All-American isnt even averaging a double double this year, that would be deemed under achieving as well in my mind. But instead, you pick on a freshman who hasnt even played 5 college games yet, who is playing big minutes and taking shots that the team needs him to take and he will eventually make. The kid is in a slump, Brandon had a similar slump last year and nobody on this team is shooting well from deep this year. So point your finger at the freshman? This isnt right. If you will watch film and see his stats from high school, AAU and this year, you geniuses should also be able to figure out that he is the opposite of a defensive liability. Just becasue he isnt flying above the rim swatting shots out of bounds like Tony, doesnt make him a bad defender. Sure he isnt the athlete that maybe you all want to see, but he is one of the smartest kids on the floor and 9/10 in the right position to make a play. His form, his game and the kid himself are too good to struggle much longer and I can't wait to see you all jump on the bandwagon once it starts rolling. Do your homework before you post, u idiots.

BA-ZINGGGGGG!

I cannot believe the level of basketball IQ in this forum. Saying a kid should transfer, quit, lose his scholarship for being in a shooting slump?! Idiots. Jordan williams is 8-20 from 3 this this year and 18-48 from the field. I wouldnt call that shooting a high percentage. Even you basketball "experts" can figure that out. Our All-American isnt even averaging a double double this year, that would be deemed under achieving as well in my mind. But instead, you pick on a freshman who hasnt even played 5 college games yet, who is playing big minutes and taking shots that the team needs him to take and he will eventually make. The kid is in a slump, Brandon had a similar slump last year and nobody on this team is shooting well from deep this year. So point your finger at the freshman? This isnt right. If you will watch film and see his stats from high school, AAU and this year, you geniuses should also be able to figure out that he is the opposite of a defensive liability. Just becasue he isnt flying above the rim swatting shots out of bounds like Tony, doesnt make him a bad defender. Sure he isnt the athlete that maybe you all want to see, but he is one of the smartest kids on the floor and 9/10 in the right position to make a play. His form, his game and the kid himself are too good to struggle much longer and I can't wait to see you all jump on the bandwagon once it starts rolling. Do your homework before you post, u idiots.

Yes, yes, yes. You are my type of poster.

Yes, yes, yes. You are my type of poster.

The kind that completely misses the point of a thread?

Seems about right.

The kind that completely misses the point of a thread?

Seems about right.

In fairness, someone had to deliver the lunch pail/coach on the floor brow beating to our "idiot fanbase".

My serious question to our new basketball insider: A/S/L?

The kind that completely misses the point of a thread?

Seems about right.

Wasn't championing your cause of bitching about everything was I?

I cannot believe the level of basketball IQ in this forum. Saying a kid should transfer, quit, lose his scholarship for being in a shooting slump?! Idiots. Jordan williams is 8-20 from 3 this this year and 18-48 from the field. I wouldnt call that shooting a high percentage. Even you basketball "experts" can figure that out. Our All-American isnt even averaging a double double this year, that would be deemed under achieving as well in my mind. But instead, you pick on a freshman who hasnt even played 5 college games yet, who is playing big minutes and taking shots that the team needs him to take and he will eventually make. The kid is in a slump, Brandon had a similar slump last year and nobody on this team is shooting well from deep this year. So point your finger at the freshman? This isnt right. If you will watch film and see his stats from high school, AAU and this year, you geniuses should also be able to figure out that he is the opposite of a defensive liability. Just becasue he isnt flying above the rim swatting shots out of bounds like Tony, doesnt make him a bad defender. Sure he isnt the athlete that maybe you all want to see, but he is one of the smartest kids on the floor and 9/10 in the right position to make a play. His form, his game and the kid himself are too good to struggle much longer and I can't wait to see you all jump on the bandwagon once it starts rolling. Do your homework before you post, u idiots.

Welcome to the board.

Now that you're here, learn how to read.

Nobody has called for Clarke to transfer. Pretty much to a man, we all feel that he will EVENTUALLY develop into a good, C-USA level basketball player.

But your basketball IQ is lower than Clarke's shooting percentage if you've watched the first 5 games and have come to any other conclusion than that the game is just moving too fast for him and that the best thing for his long-term development would be to be brought along slowly.

It's not Clarke's fault. Walton's injury forced Benford's hand...but it shouldn't have forced him in when the Creighton game was still in shouting range, nor should it have forced his hand to play him late in the UAH debacle. That's coaching...

But...if you're going to be a D-1 contributor you also have to take advantage of your opportunities...and Clarke hasn't...most notably his 0-6 performance in what should've been a no pressure game against Cameron.

Obviously Clarke was a good shooter in high school and AAU...that's why he has a division 1 scholarship. Now that he has that scholarship though, no one gives two flips what he did in high school...this isn't an Argyle fan-board, it's a UNT fan-board...and UNT players and coaches are open to criticism. So it may not prove the best place for an overly-sensitive individual...especially not one with such close ties to the subject of criticism, don't ya think?