Make UNT the Dallas team

Smartest MeanGreener post ever.

Suburbs are good now?

Not to burst your bubble, but Dallas is a terrible idea. We need to stay in Denton. Bring the fans to us. No one is really fond of south central Dallas. Market to the people that will listen and bring them to Apogee. If we start winning and don't trip up in games such as @Tulane or @Ohio as what happened last year people will come. My bet is that Apogee will see it's first sellout on September 6th and it is going to be awesome (the game must be scheduled at night though). If people want to come be a part of it then great, if DFW alum don't want to drive the "grueling" 30-45 minutes to Apogee then they can go buy a purple shirt and go watch the frogs get beat to death.

South Central Dallas contains the largest and most famous state fair in in the United States with the largest collection of Art Deco (Moderne) buildings in the world. It also contains one of the most storied football stadiums in the country. (Far more suitable to college football than that bloated grotesquerie in Arlington). We should not forget that it also produces some of the best high school football players in Texas.

For heaven's sake, we have a monstrous highway and regular train service from Dallas to Denton and we still can't fill our stadium now and have rarely done so in the last fifty years.

We are talking ONE game to increase our profile in Dallas. We can sit around and behave as we are just another Denton 5 A

high school or we can, at least, TRY something different.

I love Denton and our beautiful stadium on game day, but with a half filled Wing section and half empty reserve and visitors sections when we are actually winning football games should concern everyone. Dallas may not be the answer, but it is worth a try.

Suburbs are good now?

Nope.

I didn't say a chain bar/grill would solve all of our problems, but it sure as hell wouldn't hurt them. It would add a good atmosphere excluding tailgating that is waking distance to the stadium. Something the stadium and gameday desperately needs. Nobody wants to get lit on the square and try to figure out how to get to Apogee. Granted there is always tailgating, but this offers a tailgating atmosphere for the drive-in fans that might not necessarily have a tailgating crew. It's a legitimate idea and I am kind of surprised that some kind of bar/grill hasn't been put in or around that area yet. Mark my words, it will eventually happen and it will be a very good thing.

South Central Dallas contains the largest and most famous state fair in in the United States with the largest collection of Art Deco (Moderne) buildings in the world. It also contains one of the most storied football stadiums in the country. (Far more suitable to college football than that bloated grotesquerie in Arlington). We should not forget that it also produces some of the best high school football players in Texas.

For heaven's sake, we have a monstrous highway and regular train service from Dallas to Denton and we still can't fill our stadium now and have rarely done so in the last fifty years.

We are talking ONE game to increase our profile in Dallas. We can sit around and behave as we are just another Denton 5 A

high school or we can, at least, TRY something different.

I love Denton and our beautiful stadium on game day, but with a half filled Wing section and half empty reserve and visitors sections when we are actually winning football games should concern everyone. Dallas may not be the answer, but it is worth a try.

Taking away a game and putting it in Dallas is a reach and will ultimately be a bad thing. First of all, no university with a brain will agree to this. Secondly, I will take 1/2 to 3/4 full Apogee over a 1/3 at best Cotton Bowl. The bowl game crowd was a respectable crowd at best. A regular season game against Montana Tech A&M (because that's about the only school that would agree to this) at the Cotton Bowl would be a laughing stock in terms of attendance. Imagine if it was televised. Might as well put a pistol to our football programs head and pull the trigger. We don't need to look desperate, we need to win and market effectively and bring the crowd to our new football stadium and let people enjoy the square and the things that Denton has to offer. If the football program starts making the businesses in Denton money with out of town (and in town) gameday spending we very well start getting local support and free marketing via businesses. We have to stay in Denton. That's the bottom line to be honest.

Taking away a game and putting it in Dallas is a reach and will ultimately be a bad thing. First of all, no university with a brain will agree to this. Secondly, I will take 1/2 to 3/4 full Apogee over a 1/3 at best Cotton Bowl. The bowl game crowd was a respectable crowd at best. A regular season game against Montana Tech A&M (because that's about the only school that would agree to this) at the Cotton Bowl would be a laughing stock in terms of attendance. Imagine if it was televised. Might as well put a pistol to our football programs head and pull the trigger. We don't need to look desperate, we need to win and market effectively and bring the crowd to our new football stadium and let people enjoy the square and the things that Denton has to offer. If the football program starts making the businesses in Denton money with out of town (and in town) gameday spending we very well start getting local support and free marketing via businesses. We have to stay in Denton. That's the bottom line to be honest.

There are schools that would agree to do it, that wouldn't be a problem. They don't really care where we play as long as it doesn't add too much cost for them. The real problem is if we can get a reasonable return on the game. You have to pay to use these stadiums so you don't take home as much of the revenue. What would attendance need to be to actually make money on the deal? Realistically, we would need to make more than we would in Apogee for this to be worthwhile. If you can't guarantee that we would get the needed butts in seats, then don't risk it.

We just spent a lot of money building a great stadium, why are we trying so hard not to use it?

Edited March 20, 2014 by forevereagle

Before getting re-involved in 08, I would go to several games a year. Always road games. Went to Arkansas, went to Oklahoma, even went to SMU, yet never returned to Denton for a game and never donated a dime to UNT athletics.

We don't need to make it easier for this to happen. We need to get people to Apogee for games, not move games from Apogee.

Only way a game in Dallas works in my opinion is if the team we play is also bringing a lot of fans. I dont like passing a 1/3 full cotton bowl game off as a home game either. It can be a cool neutral site game where it is predominatly unt fans. I would want another team to at least be able to bring 20k for it to make sense.

There are schools that would agree to do it, that wouldn't be a problem. They don't really care where we play as long as it doesn't add too much cost for them. The real problem is if we can get a reasonable return on the game. You have to pay to use these stadiums so you don't take home as much of the revenue. What would attendance need to be to actually make money on the deal? Realistically, we would need to make more than we would in Apogee for this to be worthwhile. If you can't guarantee that we would get the needed butts in seats, then don't risk it.

We just spent a lot of money building a great stadium, why are we trying so hard not to use it?

Yep. I wouldn't mind making one of the Iowa or Tennessee games an "away" game played in the Cotton Bowl or Jerry World.

Yep. I wouldn't mind making one of the Iowa or Tennessee games an "away" game played in the Cotton Bowl or Jerry World.

That is something that I can get behind. If we are getting an away game in the Cotton Bowl, then lets do that. We shouldn't give up a home game in a different venue.

That is something that I can get behind. If we are getting an away game in the Cotton Bowl, then lets do that. We shouldn't give up a home game in a different venue.

Right. No way we should give up the Apogee Advantage unless there's something significant in it for us.

So many options, but here's my roster:

First, we need to make this an event, so I'm going to say SilverEagle is in charge of the overall look and feel, but I would also like PMG to spin a few if possible. From there, I see GL2Greatness as the debate fact checker off to the side since he loves to just sort of skulk around and keep track of things.

For a moderator, I'd love to go through some of our more retired posters and grab a cameo from a Playmaker, TulsaFaninTexas or LoveMG-type to really make it special. I mean, you don't want to waste a celebrity if you're going to have a small crowd, but if we could get 80 or so commitments, I see no reason we can't make this a regular NT roundtable event. I'd also like to encourage everyone to do this for Ray - maybe a fundraiser for athlete's pets if we can do it within NCAA rules?

?????? I'm not sure what being in charge of "overall look and feel" means. But I will say that It's always very dangerous and/or amusing to put me in charge of anything.

Forgive me , but allow me just one more observation. Recall, if you will, the thirty thousand or so fans at the HOD and all those Mean Green shirts and jackets. Now picture all those fans with their green and white gear walking around, not at an empty fair grounds, but mingling about in a vast sea of hundreds of thousands fair goers from all over the state and beyond. That's the kind of natural marketing that money can't buy.

I have heard that if we build it, they will come and have been disappointed. I have heard that winning will make them come and have been disappointed. We need to think logically, and do the math on this idea, rather than emotionally. I can only surmise that there must be a kind of odd xenophobia on this board that would react in such a reactionary way to this suggestion.

Someplace like Texas State is likely jump on this opportunity and there we will be - left behind again.

They were there because it was a Bowl event. And it received LOTS of pub from just about every news outlet because it was a Bowl. A regular season home game at the Cotton Bowl has never worked out for us. And we would never receive Bowl game-like pub from the local news outlets.

The only way we would draw more than 20K for something like that is if our opponent is A$M or maybe some service academy. A&M at Texas Stadium was our largest home game ever (1997-45K). The thing about that is that A$M brought easily more than half of those 45K fans. I was there. It was a bit embarrassing.

Right. No way we should give up the Apogee Advantage unless there's something significant in it for us.

It's like people haven't noticed our home record is 12-4. The joke used to be that you never got to see UNT win at home...especially considering we won like 1 home game at Fouts for like 3 years.

A half full Apogee is still more of an advantage than a 1/4th full Cotton Bowl. Plain and simple!

Edited March 20, 2014 by meangreener

They want pagentry.

Want it? Hell, we demand it.

I miss the Texas Pickup.

So lets have a hypothetical. A team like Nebraska comes to us and says we want a game in Texas since we don't play here anymore and we need Texas HS recruits again. We would love to play you guys in a series, but we want to play at The Cotton Bowl. What terms would you find this acceptable? 1 for 1 only, 2 for 1 with our game down here, or a no go at all because it wouldn't involve a trip to Denton?

To me, any game that involves UNT playing in the DFW area against a megapower like Nebraska, for example, even in a 2 for 1 series, would be awesome for our program. If we drew 35k UNT fans to the HoD Bowl against UNLV, a Cotton Bowl game against a team like Nebraska, during the State Fair, would easily draw a total attendance of 60k+, and it could be much higher than that. That is how I would ONLY look at a game in Dallas during the regular season as a home game replacement.

I see Rice play UT at Reliant in Houston when their giant stadium could easily host the game. I've seen TCU host Oregon State and BYU at JerryWorld in recent seasons when their place would easily handle the crowd for those two opponents. I've seen Northern Illinois host Iowa and others in Chicago at Soldier Field. It seems to me that if a bigger venue could open up a "home" game against a huge OOC team that would never consider coming to Denton, then its something to go after. For anyone that we normally play--and have for future home games, Apogee is more than fine. But an AQ power with large traveling fanbases and large alumni groups in DFW would be a good fit to play at the Cotton Bowl. An SEC or Big Ten team is who comes to mind, someone like LSU, Auburn, Nebraska, Michigan State, Penn State, etc...

So lets have a hypothetical. A team like Nebraska comes to us and says we want a game in Texas since we don't play here anymore and we need Texas HS recruits again. We would love to play you guys in a series, but we want to play at The Cotton Bowl. What terms would you find this acceptable? 1 for 1 only, 2 for 1 with our game down here, or a no go at all because it wouldn't involve a trip to Denton?

Either a one off, or one and one. Split the gate/concessions and call it a day.