It may be time to look into expanding Apogee

1 hour ago, UNT 90 Grad said:

I think you misunderstood.  The University owns the arena and rents it out for other events.  It is not owned by Athletics.

  It seems the issue may be ownership of the facility within UNT more so than the facility itself. 

Whoops—thanks for the clarification. I always thought the Super Pit was owned by the city.

My only complaint about the SP is the lack of leg room and I am not that tall (6'1").

4 hours ago, greenminer said:

Most posts on this board are opinions, man.  

At the end of the day, the Super Pit is not really that great. Lack of true premium seating, suites, elevators, entertainment areas for donors, legit practice facility, outside needs a ton of work to make it inviting, etc. It is missing so many things that a premier venue would need and I don't see it making financial sense to renovate. For the cash it will take to make it what you want, I think your money would be better spent by building new. And that doesn't even scratch the surface of the issues that arise from Athletics not controlling the facility.

If the plan is to keep good basketball coaches around, I think a new arena needs to be a priority. Baseball is a long-term issue to me. Fixing the basketball facility is a very short-term issue.

4 hours ago, Cerebus said:

I can tell you leadership does not agree, I've seen the plans.

The University rents out the SP, they hate having to give up dates for BB events.  The athletic department hates not having control of the venue, thinks it's the wrong size, lacks amenities, and wants to combine vb and bb practice space.

New arena is down the list, but it's way ahead of apogee expansion or even a baseball program.

Yes, the plans include a new basketball site, but I am not sure what priority that has. 

As for as the SP availability, I don't believe that is an issue.  The SP serves multiple purposes and a new facility would also.  Whether the SP is technically a part of the AD, also is not important.  Any President, who is the boss, is going to use the facility in the best interest of the school.

NT has basketball practice facilities and I really doubt that they have had to turn down many oc home games because of conflicts.  

UTA new arena cost $78, and would likely be much higher now.   They had one of the worst facilities imaginable.  So it made some sense even with their announced average attendance of around 2,000.   They also share the arena with a pro WBA team to help offset the cost. 

That is Apogee money for a facility that is not needed.  I think it would be a monumental mistake for NT to finance that kind of money because it is not going to generate anywhere close to the cost.    As far as lack of amenities, what?  Only thing, I can think of are suites and most of us have no need for them.    Those suites could be added to the SP at a fraction of the costs of a new arena. 

You also can't argue that the problem with the SP is lack of access and then want to share a facility with the volleyball team who season runs concurrent with football. 

Fouts had to be replaced, but look at the Athletic budget and see how big a hit that debt service is to expenses.  Yes, half of that funding is a dedicated student fee, but I don't think that is going to work for a second facility. 

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Yes, the plans include a new basketball site, but I am not sure what priority that has. 

As for as the SP availability, I don't believe that is an issue.  The SP serves multiple purposes and a new facility would also.  Whether the SP is technically a part of the AD, also is not important.  Any President, who is the boss, is going to use the facility in the best interest of the school.

NT has basketball practice facilities and I really doubt that they have had to turn down many oc home games because of conflicts.  

UTA new arena cost $78, and would likely be much higher now.   They had one of the worst facilities imaginable.  So it made some sense even with their announced average attendance of around 2,000.   They also share the arena with a pro WBA team to help offset the cost. 

That is Apogee money for a facility that is not needed.  I think it would be a monumental mistake for NT to finance that kind of money because it is not going to generate anywhere close to the cost.    As far as lack of amenities, what?  Only thing, I can think of are suites and most of us have no need for them.    Those suites could be added to the SP at a fraction of the costs of a new arena. 

You also can't argue that the problem with the SP is lack of access and then want to share a facility with the volleyball team who season runs concurrent with football. 

Fouts had to be replaced, but look at the Athletic budget and see how big a hit that debt service is to expenses.  Yes, half of that funding is a dedicated student fee, but I don't think that is going to work for a second facility. 

Wren said he is looking for ways to put in more premium seating similar to what they put in for the 2017-2018 season. The challenge is getting the University to approve removing some of the seats to make this change. I don't think suites will ever be added to the SP given how many seats that need to be removed and other necessary changes would be needed to make it even feasible.

We were pretty lucky the SP was available for pretty much all of the CBI Tournament. It allowed us to have a pretty distinct advantage.

On ‎9‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 6:21 AM, ADLER said:

I know there is the "keep selling it out first" argument, and I hear you, but you're wrong.

But, having a 30K stadium and a 28K fan base is going to keep regional P5 schools from wanting to schedule games at Apogee. The costs of not expanding Apogee may therefore exceed the costs of expansion through lost revenue. 

One of the main reasons schools would schedule UNT is to provide a game in the metroplex that their DFW fans and alumni can attend. Unlike SMU we do not have a practically empty stadium to offer.

Where would the fans of Baylor, Kansas State, Texas Tech, A&M, or TCU sit if we were to schedule them? North Texas was able to host Baylor, Kansas State, and TCU at Fouts Field because we had a relatively small fan base at the time. That is simply not he case now. Games against Texas Tech and A&M were diverted to the Cowboys Stadium because our own stadium couldn't accommodate the crowds. We certainly don't want to have to do that again.

Growing pains. What a great thing to have.

 

 

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Still agreeing with you on this subject, ADLER!

Didn't we all enjoy the national hoopla North Texas received today after our huge win over the Razorbacks?   Will this be the last of such coverage this season?  Probably so. Don't we deserve this kind of stage more than once a football season?  Of course, what school & its fans would ever turn down what we experienced today?  Is it back to OldDenton vs NewDenton?   We know who needs to win that contest.

 

On ‎9‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 7:39 AM, UNT Mean Green said:

Yes, typical city of Denton. Worst group of bureaucrats anywhere around who can’t plan ahead to save their life.

The City of Dallas and Dallas County say hi.

On ‎9‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 1:29 PM, UNTLifer said:

My only complaint about the SP is the lack of leg room and I am not that tall (6'1").

Cry me a freaking river.  6'1 not "that tall"

On 9/4/2018 at 6:21 AM, ADLER said:

I know there is the "keep selling it out first" argument, and I hear you, but you're wrong.

But, having a 30K stadium and a 28K fan base is going to keep regional P5 schools from wanting to schedule games at Apogee. The costs of not expanding Apogee may therefore exceed the costs of expansion through lost revenue. 

One of the main reasons schools would schedule UNT is to provide a game in the metroplex that their DFW fans and alumni can attend. Unlike SMU we do not have a practically empty stadium to offer.

Where would the fans of Baylor, Kansas State, Texas Tech, A&M, or TCU sit if we were to schedule them? North Texas was able to host Baylor, Kansas State, and TCU at Fouts Field because we had a relatively small fan base at the time. That is simply not he case now. Games against Texas Tech and A&M were diverted to the Cowboys Stadium because our own stadium couldn't accommodate the crowds. We certainly don't want to have to do that again.

Growing pains. What a great thing to have.

 

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The way Wren Baker operates by ignoring  past failures & “living in the past” attitudes at UNT I’d bet he already has the vision that ADLER has so adeptly stated.  One major facility (IPF) at  a time so this expansion won’t happen next year, but this group in the present AthleticDept. seems to not wait for the paint to dry on one project until they start their visualization on the next.

Anyone else notice in the LSUvsLa Tech game video when the broadcaster said “this is the first sellout at LSU in a few years?”  

GMG!

 

Edited September 24, 2018 by PlummMeanGreen

On 9/7/2018 at 3:50 PM, GrandGreen said:

UTA new arena cost $78, and would likely be much higher now.   They had one of the worst facilities imaginable.  So it made some sense even with their announced average attendance of around 2,000.   They also share the arena with a pro WBA team to help offset the cost. 

Yes, if UTA had to build their arena now it probably would cost more but I wouldn't use that number to estimate a new area for us.  The price tag on arena can vary wildly depending on is actually represented in the number.   For example, things such as the acquisition of the land and surrounding infrastructure improvements, among other things, can greatly vary the cost of a venue depending on whether they are included or not.  

Virginia Tech went to ODU, seats 25,000, we can attract power 5 schools here without more seats. All we need to do is keep winning and we can expand eventually.  

Just keep winning one game at a time!

17 hours ago, UNT78 said:

Virginia Tech went to ODU, seats 25,000, we can attract power 5 schools here without more seats. All we need to do is keep winning and we can expand eventually.  

The good feelings we all had after our Arkansas win we need to experience in Denton.  As I said, Wren Baker will listen but I’m sure have nothing to do with attitudes that kept us in Fouts Field about 25 years longer than we should have.

I wonder how many traveling  Hokie fans were at that game at ODU’s small capacity stadium?   Most likely not many.  With such a small stadium there is no way ODU made their guarantee to VTI.  Also wonder if local merchants benefitted from what had to be a small number of visiting Hokie fans?  College town businesses usually welcome thousands of visiting fans.

 If we had 9K more seats for our Texas Tech game in a few seasons Red Raider fans would flll those (& more)  & pay for most of  their gate receipts guarantee.   Can we draw at least 31,000  Mean Green fans in  a game vs the Red Raiders?  (Of course we can).

ADLER lists other schools who’d have similar drawing power as Texas Tech with thousand of visiting fans to Old & New Denton.🙄 

GMG!

🔺🔴🔻

Edited September 25, 2018 by PlummMeanGreen

36 minutes ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

The good feelings we all had after our Arkansas win we need to experience in Denton.  As I said, Wren Baker will listen but I’m sure have nothing to do with attitudes that kept us in Fouts Field about 25 years longer than we should have.

I wonder how many traveling  Hokie fans were at that game at ODU’s small capacity stadium?   Most likely not many.  With such a small stadium there is no way ODU made their guarantee to VTI.  Also wonder if local merchants benefitted from what had to be a small number of visiting Hokie fans?  College town businesses usually welcome thousands of visiting fans.

 If we had 9K more seats for our Texas Tech game in a few seasons Red Raider fans would flll those (& more)  & pay for most of  their gate receipts guarantee.   Can we draw at least 31,000  Mean Green fans in  a game vs the Red Raiders?  (Of course we can).

ADLER lists other schools who’d have similar drawing power as Texas Tech with thousand of visiting fans to Old & New Denton.🙄 

GMG!

I think it's more important to see what the draw power is for CUSA teams as we have four of those games at home every year. We shouldn't be expanding the stadium for a P5 opponent we might have once every 4 or so years. 

2 hours ago, UNTFan23 said:

I think it's more important to see what the draw power is for CUSA teams as we have four of those games at home every year. We shouldn't be expanding the stadium for a P5 opponent we might have once every 4 or so years. 

Easy to think as we all have at UNT when Athletic dept. leadership was mostly all talk & rarely any do plus UNT finally started putting a high rollers (& large contributors) list together.  Like Deep Green said there are others out there with those kind of bucks that can be tapped.

You expand with the goal of having at least 1 P5   opponent on campus every year—sometimes 2.  You beat them & Top 25 rankings are easier to attain.  Some of the snowball “lower guarantees”  schools on our future schedule can be bought out & replaced as that’s done all the time. 

With 283,000 UNT alums (as one posted that official number the last 24 hours) living within 1 to 1.5 hours of Apogee I like Wren Baker’s chances (& his obvious talents) of tapping into that gold mine successfully.  CUSA cannot be our last stop.  TCU went through 4 conferences in a 10 year period before they landed in the Big 12.

For certain, UNTFan23, & looking ahead we might not need a 40K stadium most every game, but when Notre Dame calls us for a game in Texas I’d hope we’d say no to Jerry’s World &...DO IT IN DENTON (an old Denton Chamber of Commerce motto as I recall).

Again, the LSU vs La Tech game was the Tigers first sellout in about 3 years.  So there is no formula that says:

(1) You have to sellout every home game or

(2) You have to sellout Apogee 20 games in a row before there can be expansion talk.

if we’d done that at Fouts we’d still be there since we never sold it out. (Of course, TxDOT’s future I-35E plans  is the main reason we’re no longer at Fouts Field truth be told.

Edited September 24, 2018 by PlummMeanGreen

If the Mean Green goes undefeated this year and Seth doesn’t leave that could be the last time the “sleeping giant” hits the snooze button.  Let’s just estimate just 10% of the DFW Alumni base get activated.  That is 28k that and with 10k students showing up that is 38k.  So that fills a 40k stadium.  This program given its location, and size of school has 50k stadium potential.   But potential can’t purchase a cup of coffee.    Let’s see what this season bring before we any concrete plans are made.

Edited September 24, 2018 by Mike Jackson

1 hour ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

if we’d done that at Fouts we’d still be there since we never sold it out. (Of course, TxDOT’s future I-35E plans  is the main reason we’re no longer at Fouts Field truth be told.

This couldn't be farther from the truth.

Why are we complaining about the basketball venue, when so many upper level green seats have never felt a butt? Once we sellout Apogee a few times, then I guess we can talk about expansion and Big 12 dreams.

Just got a note from a fellow alum who said the expansion of Apogee is already on the official UNT Master Plan so I guess  all this has been keyboarding practice for all.  

I think Wren Baker will take that Master Plan & do what he does best—be proactive with it.  

finis’

Just now, PlummMeanGreen said:

Just got a note from a fellow alum who said the expansion of Apogee is already on the official UNT Master Plan so I guess  all this has been keyboarding practice for all.  

I think Wren Baker will take that Master Plan & do what he does best—be proactive with it.  

finis’

As an FYI: A baseball stadium and new basketball arena are also on the Athletics Master Plan. 

On 9/7/2018 at 1:29 PM, UNTLifer said:

My only complaint about the SP is the lack of leg room and I am not that tall (6'1").

6'4" and too big around the belly here (pushing 240). The seats are way too small to be comfortable. Worse than an airplane. Otherwise, the Pit is great

28 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

As an FYI: A baseball stadium and new basketball arena are also on the Athletics Master Plan. 

Baseball good, but don’t see the advantage of a new basketball arena so far away from where most the students live---do you?  

Since some of y’all want to go smaller for a basketball arena (which Wren Baker would probably never do) then move to the Men’s Gym for a year then gut the Super Pit for a complete redux.  

What year did you graduate, UNTFan23?  1976 was my graduation year—I’m old.🎅

 

GMG!

Edited September 25, 2018 by PlummMeanGreen

I started NTSU in 1976 and graduated in 1980, the Super Pit is a good venue and the money can be better spent elsewhere. Besides get that pit rocking with 7-8 thousand and it is a great home court advantage.  Spend the money on a baseball team.  A need to expand the stadium would be great, it is in the plan!  WIN GAMES........

BEAT la tech!!!!!

GO MEAN GREEN!!!!!

Stadium expansion is not on what was presented to the BOR last November. Unless something changed, here’s where Wren’s priorities seem to lie.